Aside from releasing 2 separate albums under the JOA moniker in 2011, his first novel, The Karaoke Singer’s Guide to Self Defense, was published last September by Featherproof Books.  The 376-page work zips back and forth between a handful of people’s lives, many of which are family members in the fictional town of Stone Claw Grove, Michigan.  The characters deal with addiction and aging, struggle with responsibility, and give up on brighter dreams in an attempt to settle for whatever they already have currently.  Throughout it all, strippers strip, fights break out in bars, and singers cover all of the karaoke classics.

I recently had the opportunity to conduct an interview with Mr. Kinsella and to discover more about his venture into literature and his overall approach to the creation process.

I’ve been thinking a lot about how much work and time it takes to create a novel.  How long did it take for you to write The Karaoke Singer’s Guide to Self Defense?  Were you working on it while working on music?  While touring?

It was kind of at the center of everything for me for about 2 and a half years.  I participated in the Captain Jazz reunion shows, so I could have money to hunker down and revise it without having to work for a while.  So, I had the first draft done by the time we started planning those.  And then the last year was very carefully scheduled so that I’d spend 3 weeks in solitude working very long days on the book and then have two or three weeks away from it while we went out on tour.

People seem to have a time of day when they work better, are you more of a Morning writer, or more of a Night writer?

I’m 100% a morning writer.  If I start writing by 8 or 8:30 at the latest, then I can keep it up well into the night.  But if, for any reason I can’t start until 9:15, then the whole day is blown for me and I can’t write more than half an hour.  I don’t know what it is, but I can’t do ANYTHING else before starting to write or I’m totally thrown off.

You’ve said that when you write a novel, you just write small scenes, and then tie them all together, which I think is noticeable in the book.  The book’s narrative is also in a scrambled timeline.  Did you write the sections in the order that they appear in the book, or did you do a lot of rearranging?

It was re-arranged over and over and over and over and over.  It’s not a particularly dynamic plot and there’s a lot of sprawling information, so basically the entire trick to hopefully keep people turning the page was all about what information gets revealed when, like a mystery.

All of the scenes are tied to the funeral of the characters’ grandmother.  Had you planned this, or did you come up with it as a means of tying together the different scenes you had written?

I don’t know.  I think that was decided pretty early on in the whole thing taking shape.  But I had characters emerging and a couple hundred pages written before I had anything like a shape.

Do you revise your writing a lot?

Yes.  No hyperbole grand enough.  Revising my writing = basically my entire life?  I don’t even know where the words come from before they are being revised.  I write first drafts as fast as possible, attempting to write faster than I can think.  Then I throw 98% of everything away and the process becomes mostly like sculpting.

I read that you completed your MFA in Creative Writing.  I’m curious, do you feel like that helped you at all in your writing?  What is the process for an MFA in Creative Writing?  Did you enjoy it?

It helped very much.  The process is a lot of getting pointed towards good stuff to read and talking about its mechanics.  I wouldn’t say I enjoyed it, but I’m not really one to enjoy things.  And enjoyment hardly seems like a relevant criteria to consider one’s education in terms of.

I also read in a Youtube comment that you were doing some teaching.  Do you enjoy that?

I’m an adjunct lecturer on Popular Culture for The City Colleges of Chicago.  I like the students and I like talking about ideas with them – keeps me sharp.  When I’m away from it, it feels meaningful at times and, when I’m in the middle of it, I’m occasionally cursing it.

The image of a karaoke machine in a strip club was such a strange one for me to try to put together in my mind, is that something you’d seen before?

No, but I’ve certainly thought a lot about the tensions between vulnerability / performance that karaoke and erotic dancing certainly have in common.  The connection is a bit ham-fisted, hardly even a connection as much as degrees of the same thing.

One of my favorite scenes in the book is when one character listens to a karaoke performance of Under Pressure, and develops a richer understanding of the song’s meaning after examining the lyrics more closely.  This was especially interesting, because I really like that song, but I had never paid close attention to the lyrics myself.  Has this happened to you personally?  Has karaoke ever put a song into a new context that changed how you felt about that song?

I don’t know.  There’s this way that karaoke happens in Japan that is a lot different than how we experience it here.  Here it is very rare to see anyone do it without some degree of ironic detachment.  But in my experience, in Japan it seems like people get together and sing each other songs to express to each other with complete sincerity how they are feeling and what they are thinking.  It’s not even coded, just a 1:1 ratio that they do completely shamelessly.  That’s a little hard for us as Americans to even imagine seeing as we mostly conduct all of our interpersonal relationships in codes.

Also, I’m dying to know: In the novel one of the characters is always eating something called a “marshmallow bar.”  What is a marshmallow bar?  I was imagining it’s like a Rice Krispy Treat, or something.

Yeah, I guess so.  There’s that whole realm of bars that are sorta candy bars and sorta granola bars.  I guess they’re somewhere in that continuum.

The book’s cover has a very used-book look to it: a faded yellow-ish color, spots, and water stains, and, on the corner of the first page, it looks like someone wrote the price in pencil, as used book stores often do.  I really appreciated this aesthetic, are you a used book enthusiast?

I don’t know.  I’m not an enthusiast in the sense that I pay attention to buying particular editions or collecting in any sense like that.  I read a lot and I make very little money, so it’s only practical.  In regards to my own book being designed to look like that, that was mostly inspired by wanting to acknowledge that the themes of my book were well-tread and inherited.

What is the coolest used bookstore you’ve ever been to? Have you ever been to Powell’s in Portland?

Yeah, Powells is great, usually the first place we drive to when we pull into Portland.  It’s funny that no one that works there would ever recognize me as just one more guy that walks around it once or twice a year, but every time I return I get excited because I recognize some employees and it makes me feel a little bit at home.  Myopic is the neighborhood used bookstore that i’ve frequented for years.

I’ve seen some mention of a second book you’ve been working on.  Can you spare some details?

I wrote the first draft years ago, before writing the Karaoke one.  I’ve been revising it for the last 6 months, but am missing this week’s deadlines badly, blah.  Bums me out.  I’m really close to being done and sending it out to try to find a publisher.  It’s much simpler – one narrator, one timeline.  It takes place in combination of a couple already defined fictional worlds.

I also saw that your band Joan of Arc performed a live score to a Charlie Chaplin film.  How did that go? Are you a big fan of Charlie Chaplin?

I am not particularly a fan of Chaplin, we (Joan of Arc) were just commissioned to score that specific film.  Of his films I have seen, that specific one is a bit underwhelming, but we played around with speeding it up and slowing it down and I think that made it a different and hopefully engaging thing.  I’m excited about what we ended up making, but the creative problem solving regarding the specifics of the situation had us considering canceling up until the day before it happened.  So it was very stressful, but forced us into a new way of playing which was ultimately good.

I read that you’ve done some film directing.  Are there any other non-music or non-writing projects in the works?

Joan of arc is existing these days in two parallel ways – #1 the backing band for my friend who has started writing songs for the first time in her mid-thirties and is amazing and #2 as the musical component of an experimental theater / performance art piece based on the poems of Charles Reznikoff.  So these are two very different approaches that keep us busy and engaged in two very different ways that inform each other.  But also, neither of these depend on us and our tastes to motivate how they should develop.  So it’s a good and interesting way to be a band for now.

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The Karaoke Singer’s Guide to Self Defense is avalailable now from Featherproof books.
[Click here for free "mini-book"/excerpt.]

You can also pick up the latest Joan of Arc record, Life Like from Polyvinyl records.

Also released in 2011, is Joan of Arc’s Oh Brother; essentially a 4-song/4-sided album, showcasing Kinsella‘s varied collaborations with such artists as Zac Hill (Hella, Death Grips, Marnie Stern) and Robert A. Lowe (Lichens, Singer, 90 Day Men).  Oh Brother is available through Joyful Noise.

Having grown up in Orange County, CA, Karl linked up with DJ Greyboy in San Diego and the duo began fusing together acid jazz grooves and beats.  By 1995, the project had acquired guitarist Elgin Park (aka Michael Andrews), organist/keyboardist Robert Walter, bassist Chris Stillwell, and drummer Zak Najor.  This marked the birth of the now-legendary Greyboy Allstars, as well as their classic album, West Coast Boogaloo (feat. Fred Wesley).

Always prolific and ever evolving, Karl thrived in several more projects, began fronting Karl Denson’s Tiny Universe, and has continuously popped up and found homes with everybody and anybody in the jamband circuit over the years.  His resume is a mile long and, most recently, he’s performed with the likes of such acts as Slightly Stoopid and none other than PUBLIC ENEMY!  Every great festival that I’ve been to has included some incarnation of Karl Denson; whether it’s a late night, post-Phish Halloween show, KDTU set, or just the saxophonist jamming with a seemingly unlikely bluegrass band – he is up to his eyeballs in music!  Through it all, one of the most impressive things about this man is the balance that he maintains between heavy touring and being a father/husband.  He specifically structures his tours to maintain this balance and one can tell from being in his presence that he truly knows how to keep all of his passions equally in check.

Once I heard that Karl Denson’s Tiny Universe was going to be covering the Rolling Stones album, Sticky Fingers in it’s entirety, with additional guitar work by New Orleans slide-guitar extraordinaire, Anders Osborne , I knew that Seattle and the rest of the cities on this tour were in for a treat.  Not only did the band absolutely tear apart the Stones album with deep heart and soul, but the KDTU second set revealed the ever evolving nature of Karl’s own music.  The show was incredible and we even got the rare opportunity to ask Denson a few questions between sets.

-Joel Ott

JOEL OTT: So how’s the tour going?

KARL DENSON: We’re having a great time… It’s going really well, the crowds are loving it.  It’s a great record, you know, it’s fun to play.

JO: How did you choose Sticky Fingers? I mean the Stones have a lot of material…

KD: We were just kind of- we started with Aqualung.  We were gonna do Jethro Tull.  And then we thought, “you know what? A lotta people aren’t gonna know that record… like, really well” .  So, we said, “Ok, let’s go with the Stones” and then, we just started going through all their records and that (Sticky Fingers) had a bunch of tunes that I really liked… You know, “Sway”; I’ve always loved that track.  And then we’d already done ‘Can’t you hear me knocking,” you know, a year ago, and it just seemed like the right one.

JO: Well, it definitely works!

KD: We’re having fun

JO: Anders?  How did that all come about?

KD: We needed somebody to play slide… You know, we needed a slide guy and somebody who could sing, to share the vocal duty.  And he and I have been trying to do stuff together; we sat in on each other’s gigs a couple times in the last couple years, so this is like our first chance to really do something together, so… he was kind of a natural choice.

JO: Brian Jordan has been with the Tiny Universe for quite a while – what happened to him?

KD: He decided he wanted to do his own thing.  And you know, I think with our schedule being kind of broken, as it is-  You know, like I did a lot of this summer with Slightly Stoopid, so we kinda had some nice big breaks in the schedule… I think it gave him enough momentum on his own where he was like,”I think I should stick with my thing.“  So, he’s just doing his thing… and DJ Waynes was a natural choice; we’ve played with him a few times and I’ve always wanted to play with him.  You know, like he sits in and ALWAYS impressed, so it’s kind of a cool thing.

JO: You’ve mentioned before how, early on in Grey Boy Allstars, you’d put ideas out or people would put ideas out there (in the context of grey boy) and they either liked it or not, but it was like real straight and to the point -

KD: With the All Stars? Haha, yeah they’re the style council.

JO: So I was wondering how that’s affected your growth and development.

KD: You know what, it was a really good opportunity and still is; we still do things together.  It’s a great sounding board from the standpoint of… really, kind of fleshing out ideas AND knowing when it’s cool or not.   Sometimes there’s things that you do that might work for this band (but) they don’t work for the All Stars, or there are some things that are just like,”that’s a great idea, but not necessarily applicable to my audience.“  So, that’s the cool thing about having those guys around – they just refuse to play anything.

AMY SALVADENA (recording the interview): Brutally honest?

KD: They refuse to play anything they don’t like. They’ll actually, you can force them to do it, but they’ll realize – this isn’t going to work *laughs*.

JO: You were talking about Jam Cruise and how it gets better and better every year, but you don’t want to have any expectations (“I don’t want to say it’s gonna be better next year, but the way it’s been going…”,) so I was wondering about expectations.  I try not to have expectations myself, because I feel like it sets you up for disappointment, or whatever, and I think it’s a good way to go through life. So, I’m wondering; does that point of view apply at all to your music career or your life?

KD: You know, to a certain extent.  I’m not one to go into a situation and create… I don’t create situations I’m normally one to go in and see what it is and then, you know, try to make the best of it.  I do find that people that have lots of expectations tend to get disappointed and then bum everyone else out around them, so I think it’s a more healthy way to look at life and kind of keep it fresh.  You can have expectations, I think it’s just, you know, there’s that choice of whether or not to be happy.  Along with that, you know people that make a lot of expectations tend to allow themselves to be unhappy when their expectations are let down and I disagree with that philosophically.

JO: Jazz, I want to talk about jazz…when you started playing, it was early on… I mean, how do you feel like jazz was then, how is jazz now, and how does that relate to the whole jam band scene, which has sort of evolved into this big thing now…

KD: You know what, I’ve always been a jazz head, but I think there was a point where I realized that what I really liked about jazz was its connection to dance music… And so, I tend to stay on that path.

*loud laughing in background, we all laugh*

I think that’s led me away from jazz, traditional jazz to a certain extent, where I think that spirit of what it was when it started in New Orleans is maybe more applicable to hip hop right now, than it is to trad(itional) jazz.  You know, I liked John Coltrane as a kid, so I listened to a lot of avante garde jazz and I thought that’s what I wanted to do for a long time.  And so, as a result, it kept me open to a lot of things… and, so what jazz is; I really think it’s a spirit, not a style of music… And, you know, I look at cats like MMW (and) to me is like, I like what they do- I mean, in terms of being jazzy.  And I like what Roy Hargrove does… but, I don’t like the purest element that doesn’t allow for new thought.

JO: What about the connection with jambands?

KD: Well, I think the jamband scene is a scene that’s all about improvisation, which I think very closely connects it to the jazz scene.  I used to always say that I thought High Sierra (music festival) was one of the best jazz festivals of the year, because you would find that bands like MMW would be there, or Skerik would be there, and, you know, all these weird projects… Bela Fleck would be there, Jacob Fred Jazz Odysey would end up there, and it’s all this weird music.  And then, you have a bunch of blues artists and soul artists and bluegrass artists… Bluegrass – to me – is jazzy; it’s all about improvisation.  So, I think the jamband scene -for me- is a natural place to be, in terms of playing jazz music.

JO: Jamcruise.  Convince us.  I mean  -it sounds awesome- tell us why we should go.

KD: Well, I mean… you’re on a boat!

*we all laugh*

You’ve got all the bands you like on a boat.  You’re stuck on a boat with a bunch of bands and it’s pretty amazing and I think that one thing that Jamcruise has done that nobody else does to this extent, is we created the “jam room”.  The after hours jams that go on in the jam room are pretty epic, because you’ve got, you know, 20 bands on a boat, they’re stuck out there.  After everything’s done and it’s 1 or 2 o’clock in the morning, everybody heads to the jam room, and everybody goes on stage and just plays – and it’s pretty insane.  So, I think it’s a really good party, and it’s on a boat!

Our interview was then cut short, because Karl had to return to the stage for a set of KDTU material.  One didn’t really know what to expect after such a powerful cover of the entire Sticky Fingers album.

Anyone familiar with The Stones release would naturally anticipate a stretched-out sax jam towards the end of the classic, “Can’t You Hear Me Knocking” and, though they ran through it really well, the jam didn’t stray too far from the original.  What really took me by surprise though, was the next track, “You Gotta Move,” which featured extended slide-guitar work by Anders Osborne over the rest of the band (we’re talking about a full horn section, keys, another guitar, and drums).  At some point, I remember turning to my friend and saying something like, “Wow, this DEFINITELY does not sound exactly like the album.”  Sure enough, upon checking later, the band had taken a two-minute blues tune and jammed the hell out of it with emotion and power, for a screaming seven minutes!  The other truly noteworthy jam, most unexpectedly, popped out of “Sister Morphine”, which is a really slow and mellow song, as the title would imply.  As soon as the lyrics were “out of the way,” the drums kicked into double-time and, all of a sudden, the room was in a funk-infused, trancey dance party that lasted around ten minutes longer than the album version.  We were getting a taste of exactly what solar system the Tiny Universe is jamming in these days.  Of course, they also nailed the classics: “Brown Sugar”, “Wild Horses” and “Dead Flowers”.

I’ve seen Karl many times and, although I’m not familiar enough with his material to really get into the names of the songs, I know that I can always count on a couple of things: the music always sounds fresh and I am always gonna dance my ass off.  This second set was no exception.  While they ran through some of their more composed material, they didn’t waste a lot of time before getting right back into that realm “Sister Morphine” had brought us to, and we had a full on dance party for the entire set.  There was a “synthy” feel that kept coming on in waves and it was something that struck me in particular about their current direction.  As far as I’m aware, this is definitely something new, in terms of their jamming style. The set thrived  with energy and gave each band member their own moment(s) to really shine.

If you have a chance, get up offa your thing and go see Karl D!  After the tour he played a few dates with Fred Wesley and the Greyboy Allstars, covering their original debut in its entirety to wrap up the year in Southern CA -including a stop in the Bay area for NYE- before heading out “on a boat” for Jamcruise 10.  The Sticky Fingers tour “with special guests” (including Anders Osborne) will continue with their East Coast leg launching at the beginning of February.  This is not to be missed folks!

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CLICK HERE for tour dates.

LISTEN TO THE SHOW:

SET ONE (Sticky Fingers)

SET TWO

Electronic music is not my genre of expertise, so it came as a surprise to me when I heard AO’s soothing and ambient tones on his solo release.  I had the good fortune of then, seeing him live at the Dropping Gems Showcase at Decibel Festival, where he was joined by friend and frequent collaborator, Zuri Biringer, whose lilting guitar riffs added a grounded sense of nature, invoking images of sky and water.  It’s impossible to listen to the Seattle native’s sound without being drawn to the beats.  However, while they ultimately drive the music forward, they aren’t the primary focus of the songs, which create a vivid mood through crooning vocals, guitar, and keyboard.  In combination with some incredible imagery that accompanied the performance, the set was nearly transcendent.

Not long after his show that night, I was able to sit down with Alex to discuss his development as a DJ and find out where he draws his inspiration from.  His ambient sound was a divergence from the sounds that I had heard from him previously and I had many questions.  Eloquently and in fascinating detail, he was able to give me answers to questions that I didn’t even know that I had.  To an electronic media newbie, like myself, I found him to be incredibly informative and insightful; even providing hints on where to start my own exploration of the vast genre.  In the end, he was even so helpful as to give a demonstration of how he creates his unique style.

The following is the transcript from that conversation.

PARVANEH: I guess my basic question would be, when did you get interested in electronic music and where did you see yourself going when you started?

DJAO: So, I don’t really know where to begin really.  I guess the first time that I ever heard an electronic music song that I thought, “Oh shit this is really incredible,” I heard- yeah, I guess it’s like the first track from the Beastie Boys album, Hello Nasty.  Yeah I heard it in like sixth grade.  We were sitting on a bus.  We were on a school trip and they had the CD and that was when that album came out, and I remember hating on it quite a bit.  -I’m sorry, I’m really OCD, I just need to make sure this is recording right.

[Checks on the recording]

Anyway so sixth grade on the bus?

So, sixth grade on the bus.  I remember I saw- I don’t know, it’s a long story, but I saw the Beastie Boys album cover and I was like, “I bet that sucks!”  and I was on this bus ride, and a friend of mine lent it to me.  I thought that them rapping was pretty cool, but the beat… everything about it was just so crazy to me.  It was like, “Wow, this is one of the hardest pieces of music I’ve ever heard”.  Up until then, I was just listening to 90s alternative.  I was really into Rage Against the Machine and stuff like that.  Then, through the Beastie Boys…  Their DJ is one of the best scratch DJs, his name is Mixmaster Mike and is one of the craziest musicians who uses a turntable, basically.  He’s really out there and really experimental and the crew that he’s from is really experimental.  They’ve done a lot of work.  They’ve released albums around turntables, using them to produce sound that I don’t think anyone’s really matched…  The whole turntable thing really died out.  That’s the way I really came to it, ’cause I really started DJing sophomore year of high school.  I wasn’t even DJing for people.  I was just, literally, in my room with the turntables just scratching for like ,two years probably…  Just scratching, listening to really, really weird beats made by other DJs and scratching with no purpose and no plan whatsoever.

Then I started DJing high school parties and dances and stuff, but I was still basically listening to all hip hop.  So, then I started DJing out.  Playing shows and stuff, just doing dances for friends at their houses and fundraisers.  You know, high schools.  Then, I went to college and I was still pretty much just listening to hip hop all the time and DJing and all that, and my style of DJing just started to get weirder -like the chopped and screwed stuff that I do now when I DJ, as opposed to my live show- started freshman and sophomore year.  I mean, it started in High School, but that’s when it really started to flourish.

And then, it was my junior year, when I studied abroad in London, where I really got exposed to-  Well, I was kind of eclectic, but when I moved to a different city where no one listened to hip hop, or most of my friends didn’t listen to hip hop, I suddenly learned about just so many different kinds of music and started to go out and see it live, which had a lot to do with me starting to catch on.  Especially when, around that time, that was…  that was 2007-2008…  That wasn’t when dubstep first started, but it was right when it was blowing up in-  Before it had blown up in America, but when it was becoming really developed and popular and a lot of people were starting to accept it as cutting edge and interesting.  And a lot of my favorite artists are dubstep artist who are from that era and who I saw live.  Like Benga,who I saw live before his album came out.  I only knew him through the internet.  I didn’t come to London knowing anything and, sitting in my room in London on the internet and realizing that all these super cutting edge dudes, who are so interesting and fascinating to me, are all in the city I was in, I was like, “Oh my god, I have to go to some of these shows”.  I remember, when I went to see Benga -I couldn’t find anybody to go with me- and, I remember I was just lying in bed that night and I was like, “Well, what am I gonna do tonight?  Am I just going to smoke and pass out, or am I going to go to this show by myself?“  And I went and, first of all, I met him and then, that is where I met my British girlfriend, totally randomly.

So it worked out well.

Turned out to be a good choice.  But I came back and my senior year just completely changed the music I DJed.  I started listening to electro, started listening to way more dubstep, and started listening to futurebeat.  Which is I guess is where you’d put me now, sort of.  But there’s a lot of words for it, like IDM.

What would that stand for?

That stands for “Intelligent Dance Music.”  It’s for like, experimental 90 beats per minute roughly.  It’s a pretty nebulous term.  It has a lot of connotations with music that came out in the mid-late 90s, or early 2000s.

I know when I saw you at the Baltic Room last fall, it definitely sounded like-  I mean, I’m sure it also had to do with the theme of the night, but it sounded much more dubstep-style.  A lot of heavy beats, but definitely pretty scratchy, do you feel like you were influenced by glitch at all, either?

You know, I think I was more influenced more by J Dilla than I was by any hard IDM or hard glitch, and I have friends who are really into glitch, like Calvin from Ghost Feet…  We did a Portland show recently and he drove me down from Olympia and he said, “You should check out this hard minimum glitch that I got from France.”  He said, “This stuff is so computer error,” and I was like, I like this stuff, but I don’t.  I don’t seek it out.  It definitely influences my music but it’s not like…

Not one of your main influences…

Not one of my main influences.  I think mainly it influences me through other artists that inspire me.  But that particular show was a DJ set, right?

Yeah

So yeah, I remember that set, that was really fun.  That was a lot of hip hop and chillwave and future beat and there was definitely some really crazy dubstep in there too.

*laughing* Yeah.

Yeah, the guy who booked me, Ill Cosby, is a future bass DJ and so, I pulled out more of my upper tempo- you know, strange, really mindblowingly arranged dance tunes for that one, more than I normally do.

I think…  I want to go back to that, too, but for your current stuff -like your Ep and the stuff you played at Decibel Festival- is much more low key, kind of with Zuri playing guitar and the singing aspect of it…  I’d been keeping up with your pieces coming out on the Dropping Gems compilations and, when your EP came out, I thought, “Wow, where did this come from?“  It sounded like a completely different style.  Was this something you were building up to, or was it something you didn’t really have the opportunity to do with the Dropping Gems Collective, or….?

Well all of that music is definitely like Dropping Gems music-

Really?

Yeah, because I make a lot of different kinds of music, but I have my more up-tempo stuff coming out on Car Crash Set in the middle of November, and I also have just straight dance music, like just regular dance music…  I guess it’s not regular, but to me it is, I just sit down and I think, “I’m gonna make a Baltimore club tune” and it just comes out however it comes out.  But, like the first song on the EP, “Underbrush,” when I sat down to make that, I thought, “I’m gonna make a dubstep tune” and that’s what came out…  So, I don’t always know. *laughter*  But, in my head, I classify it one way, but people…  But, that material is mostly over a year old.  Like “Green Lake” was a song I made right when I got a computer.  Like, I was in Seattle a while without a computer.

I guess I didn’t finish explaining…  When I graduated from college, I started working at a production company and started using the studio there and that’s how I actually started making beats.  I mean, I made beats in high school in the digital media lab on GarageBand and so, then using Logic -which is the professional version of GarageBand- which was at the studio I was working at, was not difficult.  And I still have tons of material from that time that hasn’t been released and I don’t know if it will ever be released and what I’ll do with it.  It doesn’t really matter, but all that stuff is really different.  But, I moved back to Seattle and, a couple months later, I got a computer; it was that summer.  Summer of 2010.  So, a little over a year ago.

So do you feel like you identify with some of the kinds of music that you’ve put out any more than others?  Like, do you feel like the stuff that came out on your EP was maybe stuff that expressed more of an individual style, or…?

Well, it’s hard to say with that, specifically.  I mean, all of that is really, really personal stuff, but, like I said, it’s pretty much a good record of the last year.  “Green Lake,” I made it last summer.  I made “Taigamoss”…  I made it last fall or winter.  “Underbrush” I’ve literally been working on for a year, at least.  “Moon Sun Ravine” just started as a beat with those voices, and that shit is really old too.  “Through The Field” is relatively recent, but couldn’t be any newer than the Spring.  The only thing that really I made this summer would be the second half of “Moon Sun Ravine” with Zuri playing the guitar, which I just made while I was living on Capitol Hill and I just called Zuri and said, “Man can you come over and play?  Bring your guitar I need to finish this goddamn EP.”

So how did the partnership…?

Yeah, the collaboration, the collaborative partnership-

…the collaboration with Zuri come about?

We’ve just been friends for a long time- Man, when was the first time we jammed?  I don’t even know… the first thing that comes to mind is a song called “Forest,” which I played live at the Decibel show…  No, there’s another song, it’s called “Pacific City”…  Me and Zuri went down to Portland.  I think Zuri actually just came down to kick it, just the two of us went down to kick it with the Dropping Gems people.  This is like when I was first getting to know all of them.  And we just hung out and, at one point, we went to the Oregon coast and we went to this place called Pacific City, which was really, really, really incredible.  But yeah, at a certain point, he came over to the house and I had just put together-  Well, I think I might have actually, just done it all at once…  I just played some pads, played some noises, I had a couple different sounds, just a couple different chords on top of each other, or maybe just one chord, and I said, “Hey Zuri, just play some guitar over this” and a week later, I just went in and just chopped up what he had played and put it into a sampler and just played it.  And, because I don’t know how to play piano and I don’t know how to play guitar and, because like of all these things… collaborating with people who are really talented like Zuri, who is, first of all, unbelievably talented, but he’s also got exactly the same (well not exactly the same) but in the exact same continuum that I am, in terms of taste and definitely in terms of melodic sensibility, is great.

Of course.

And, during the Decibel show, he was really blowing me away.  He recorded that set -or, someone did- and I don’t know where it is.  I meant to record it, but was too flustered in the process of getting everything set up.  It just turned out to be just a really happy accident.  It wasn’t really an accident, but really an organic thing that I didn’t have to plan at all.  He would just come in and play over the things I made, I’d chop it up in the sampler and it would add so much.  We did a couple more songs that way and it developed into a thing that was just really, really fruitful from a production standpoint, and I realized, if we can do this in the studio, this would be perfect live, too.  He came through and played at the Electric Tea Garden and it was amazing.  It really helped my anxieties, ’cause there’s a general sense of anxiety when you’re playing music like this that is generally done in a studio ahead of time.  When you’re not like, just pressing play on an Ipod, which I have literally seen people do before…

Right *laughing*

So, having it be done as much live as possible is really important thing for me and I’m not anywhere near where I want to be in terms of that.  Like, I just do what I can at the moment and, as I get to be a better musician, I’ll add more.

Well, I think the stuff you’ve done with Zuri always sounds really natural.  I think, a lot of times, when people have another instrument come in, it can sound weird, but I was actually playing your EP with my boyfriend -this is kind of an aside- but he said, “God, this would be really great with some guitar over it,” and then all the sudden Zuri comes in and he was like, “oh! Perfect!”  So, I think it feels really natural and makes a lot of sense.  And, I guess I have a lot of questions, too, about how you put your music together on a technical level.  I mean, I have NO knowledge about the process of making electronic music; like what programs you use or how you put it together, but I guess I’ll save those for later when you show me how it works.

Having seen your previous show and having heard the stuff that’s been coming out on compilation CDs, I think I heard a much more obviously complex kind of a sound from you, like you were saying about the show that I saw; that you were really kind of throwing everything out there.  And it seems like a lot of your recordings have been showcasing a lot of different skills that you have technically as a DJ.  When you came out with your EP, or your stuff that you’ve been working on longer term, the sound seemed to be a lot simpler on the surface.  Though, seeing you live, I feel like I could tell the complexities in the beats, which kind of moved around a little bit, subtly changing tempos.  Why did you make that change in your sound?

Well, it wasn’t that much of a change for me, really, because that’s how I’ve always done it.  I just hadn’t released any of it, so no one really knew.  When DJing, I’m so eclectic and I’m drawn to so many different things…  The biggest distinction, though, is that I’m playing other peoples’ music and not, you know, not mine.  I’m not creating that stuff that I play.  Anyway, the thing about my live shows is that I don’t have a template or formula for making song, and I don’t have a formula for structuring songs in the middle of making them and, especially if I come back to something that I was working on… anything new that I do will be different than what I was originally doing.  It’ll be in the same vein, but… you can really tell on the fourth track of the EP, “Moon Sun Ravine,” there’s the part where the voice is and then, there’s the part with the guitar.  And they were both made months apart from each other.  And so, you can just tell.  And, for some people, the switch may be too much.  I know I had long conversations with people, in Dropping Gems specifically, who just said,”the guitar is too much, it’s too jarring.”  I agonized about that for a little while, but eventually, I decided to keep it.  But, in any event, the reason why tempos change and beats change is because that’s just what happens when I play the songs.

Right, I wasn’t meaning that in a negative way.  I really like that, actually.

Yeah.  No, I mean, I have plenty of thoughts about what to say like, “Well, you know, life is always changing.”

*Laughter*

But seriously, life is never in a lock-step meter.  You know, every day could potentially be a revolutionary day.  Like, if something crazy happens and you have to upend your whole life… that’s kind of what this summer’s been like for me a little bit.  Things have finally settled down, but also there’s a lot of points on the EP and in my live set where there aren’t any drums at all.  It’s just ambient.  And then, drums come in and that’s kind of similar to the patterns of life, you know.  Activity and inactivity, or inspiration and depression, or whatever else you want to say.  So, the EP is also narrative, so it really has a specific narrative…  It’s like a trip, like a walk in the woods, you know?  And there’s stops and starts to that experience, too.  There’s parts where you’re walking down a hill and you might trip, or other times where things are just mundane and you’re trying to stay in line.

So, just to clarify, the narrative is the movement of someone through….?

Well, it’s just natural environments, forests, specifically.  Obviously, it’s not a specific place, it’s more fantasy-based than that.

I think you can definitely feel that in the EP.   Obviously, the names of the songs tend to imply that naturalness.  I guess that, to me as a listener, hearing some of your stuff that’s more rhythm-heavy and complex, compared to the ambient sounds that you have on the EP, it definitely seems to be much more reminiscent of nature as opposed to mechanics.

Yeah, definitely.  I mean, that’s the thing about… I love electronic music…  I was thinking about this the other day.  It’s probably the genre of music where the most exciting things are happening, just in general.  But, you know, there’s a significant history to electronic music and a lot of the pioneers…  I’m not like a hard electronic music nerd.  Especially with pioneer stuff.  I mean, I might get myself in trouble for saying this, but… I don’t like rigid, harsh, computer sounds.  I just don’t.  That’s what a lot of people make and that’s actually what’s popular, essentially.  Mid-range dubstep that has a lot of spikey computer sounds and huge over-compressed kicks and snares, it sounds like robots screaming and stuff.  There’s definitely a nice, enjoyable side to that music, but it seems like there’s way more bad than good and there’s way more inorganic electronic music.

Do they do that to put an emphasis on skill?

Well, not so much that, it’s just an aesthetic.  It’s a harsh aesthetic, and it’s an aesthetic that lacks a lot of mechanic rhythm.  It honestly, just has a lot to do with people partying.

It’s different for me, because I use a computer as my main instrument, but I don’t want to express robotic ideas or cold, synthetic ideas, or rigid ideas.

One of the cool things, I think, about the EP is that, because of the ambient sounds and getting away from the more mechanical aspects of electronic music, where the beat isn’t the emphasis, but has a large effect on the feeling of the music, it seems to have an appeal to more people who are outside of the electronic music world.  Were you intentionally trying to reach outside of that scene?

Well, not really.  It’s something I want, but it’s not something I’m explicitly aiming for in my head when I am making the music.  Part of it’s just that I have pretty eclectic taste and I like seeing a lot of different things live, you know.  I actually went to my first death metal show on Friday and it was a really extreme scene, but it’s really awesome, too.  I just got booked for a show in Portland and I’m playing right before the headliner and it’s just an indie band.  No one else on the bill is electronic and to me that makes perfect sense.  I don’t want to appeal to just one crowd and… there’s people I know I won’t appeal to, but…  I mean, I would love to appeal to everyone.  I guess I’m kind of insecure that way, you know, I’d love if everyone liked me.

*Laughter*

But, I don’t think that I want one scene or audience versus another.  And I like to make people feel comfortable and to communicate positive information and feelings, especially in a live setting where people are congregated together.  It’s nice to be able to communicate that individually to people through their headphones or whatever, but specifically when I’m physically there performing and creating sounds where there are a lot of people congregated to hear it, I really, really want what I’m transmitting to be positive.  I mean, I have a lot of music and I play these things that communicate a negative state of mind, but I try to do it in a way that’s enjoyable or at least uplifting.

There are a lot of artists, in my genre specifically, who are about being as harsh and nasty as possible and people go to those shows and are like “Yeah play the crazy shit!” and I totally respect that and sometimes I feel like that.  Like I said, I went to this metal show and it was awesome, but it was definitely some of the heaviest and most brutal stuff I’ve seen live.

Well, that kind of leads into what I think is going to be one of my final questions.  For you, what do you think are the advantages to playing a live show vs. a studio recording and vice versa?

Well, live shows are totally different, because (with) in studio recordings, I’m spending hours and hours and hours trying to find the right sounds and put them together correctly and getting them all mixed and balanced correctly, and to get the thing I’m looking for, which I only have the vaguest idea about and don’t really know it until I find it.  It just takes forever and it’s emotionally kind of harrowing and it’s just a mess and it takes a while.  And then, once I’ve found it, I’ve found it and it’s like a happy accident and I can enjoy it.  And in a live performance, it’s just about communicating that hard work to people in the most accessible way possible.  The most important work happens in the studio and the live show is like a celebration of what I’ve managed to find.  And I get to do some of it live, so it’s interesting to watch, but mostly it’s like, “Look what I found, guys!”

I know you mentioned this earlier and you didn’t really have a chance to talk about this, but you brought up that there were certain people who (you) felt like witnessing their live shows was really influential to you and (I was wondering) if you’d like to talk about it and how it influenced you….

Well yeah, James Blake is the pinnacle to me, as far as this section of electronic music goes, and he is a polarizing figure, I guess.  But to me, he’s the only person who has taken, well… I mean, I read an interview with him once and people asked him, “What’s your live show going to be like?” ’cause he was still developing it, and he said, “Well I just want it to be like Mount Kimbie’s philosophy on it.”  They’re another British group and they’re similar, but they don’t take it quite as far as James Blake, which is for him to basically play every note live.  Which is… it’s electronic music.  It’s made over multi-track on a computer -he makes it himself in his bedroom- but when he tours, he has a guy playing the drums and a guy playing the guitar and using a sampler, and he’s singing and playing the keyboards, and every sound that you hear on the record (and it may be slightly different) is being made live and being produced live and, to me, that’s the ideal.

So, do you see yourself moving in that direction in the future?

I have so many plateaus I have to reach before I can do that.  I have to learn to play the piano, I have to learn how to arrange for a band and I have to find…  I think Zuri would be a perfect person to tour with, which is why I do, but I’d have to figure out where I fit in and how I could have control over the sounds that I want to have control over.

Flying Lotus is another person who tours with a drummer and Thundercat is a bass player from LA who’s like, amazing.  He’s at a computer consul doing stuff and controlling the sounds and letting the band members go wild, which is kind of what I do, but way, way, way less talent and control in my situation.

Mount Kimbie are another good example, but they run a lot of stuff off samplers.  They play guitar live and they play drum pads live and stuff, and they have a snare that they hit every once in a while, so they’re another good example of that.

Shlohmo’s newest album is really organic and he uses loops, which is another option potentially, but I like playing with other people.  It’s basically, translating what my really personal ideas are and having control over them and then expanding that to include other people.  It’s a tremendous challenge…

Also Brown Bear, who is in Dropping Gems, has a project where he plays with a full band.   And Toro y Moi, one of my favorite beatmakers, had one of the best albums in 2010, and now he plays with a band and his music is different, because he plays with a band, and it’s amazing, but it’s just not what I would have wanted him to do, just because I love that one album so much… but, it also reminds me that it’s just not something that I think I’d be able to do to full satisfaction for a few years.

Thanks so much for talking to me about this.  I think we should wrap up this section of the interview and head over to see how you make your music.

Sounds good.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

After the interview, Alex let me come check out his studio, where he demonstrated how he creates a track from scratch.  It was a really great way to end the day and to round out some of my newfound knowledge of the electronic music artform.

[Unfortunately, the flip cam recording the footage doesn't capture the bass very well.]

LINKS:

Find out more about DJAO from the following links…

DJAO on Facebook
DJAO on SOUNDCLOUD
DJAO Dropping Gems Profile

His EP, Wuhn, can heard and/or purchased by “name your price” through here: http://droppinggems.bandcamp.com/album/wuhn

His more recent release is an installment of the No Northwest series put out by the Car Crash Set Label.  The series is an effort to spotlight Northwest producers and is a split EP, which he shares with HxdB, a Vancouver producer.  Two of the tracks are from DJAO; one being a solo piece called, “Just For Today” and the other, “Meditation,” being a collaboration with Yuk.  It is his first “for-money,” wide-release EP and is available for purchase at the following links:
BeatPort
AMAZON
Boomkat

Photo Credit:

Header image taken by Parvaneh Angus.

All other images are provided courtesy of Lara Schneider.

I recently had the opportunity to interview the legendary Jennifer Herrema while her band, RTX was performing at The Funhouse in Seattle.  Aside from her talents as rock vocalist/song-smith/frontwoman, Herrema is also an accomplished writer/journalist (VICE, Dazed & Confused, Raygun), visual artist, producer (Palace Brothers, the Kills, etc), and fashion icon [she was one of the original "heroin chic" poster girls photographed by Steven Meisel for Calvin Klein in the mid-nineties].  Jennifer was also one half of Royal Trux, the highly influential rock group formed with her ex, Neil Michael Hagerty (Howling Hex) in the late 80s.  After 13 years of playing together, the band split up in 2001.

A few years later, Herrema resurfaced -sans Hagerty- and a new band known as RTX (“Rad Times Xpress”) was born.  Still fronted by Herrema, the new incarnation features members Nadav Eisenman, Kurt Midness, Brian Mckinley, and Jaimo Welch.  The Seattle show was part of a two-week West Coast tour with newcomers Heavy Cream (Nashville, TN).  RTX‘s long-awaited full-length “RAD TIMES IV” is due out in January 2012 on Drag City Records.

Just before dusk, I waited for RTX in front of the empty venue.  The long, gray monorail loomed overhead, sliding itself inside the metallic EMP glob that represents what “rock ‘n’ roll” might have looked like.  As the sun set behind the strange scene, RTX‘s van pulled up and I was taken aboard.  “In the Air Tonight” by Phil Collins was playing on the radio.

“How’d you know it was me you were meeting with?” I asked the woman in front of me, recognizing Jennifer from photos that I had seen. “Well, Brian seemed to know you,” she replied. “He doesn’t usually talk to people otherwise.“  I had met Brian two days previous while night swimming with friends on Lake Washington. Kurt and Brian had come into my bar the next day and downed some tequilas, as well.  Seattle is a small place in that way.

The van drove to the back alley, where the gear is loaded onto the stage.  We walked down the street to a spot with remaining daylight and I took a few photos of the band.  Afterward, Jennifer found a new Miata roadster for us to lean on while we talked.  She lit her cigarette, balancing a plastic cup of white wine on her knee while I set up the recorder…

MARIELLE:
Can you tell us what you’ve been up to lately?

JENNIFER HERREMA:
We just finished up this album that’s gonna come out in January. [RTX] just finished tracking this song ["Killer Weed"] that’s on the 7″.  It’s this 7″ that’s a split with these girls [Heavy Cream] from Nashville that we’re touring with.

I’ve been designing collections for Volcom denim.  Pamela Love, the jewelry designer, we’re doing a jewelry line with them and I’m trying to get it USA manufactured.  I did get my denim manufactured USA… and like, we’re just gonna do shit like that.  We’re gonna do the jewelry line and do the t-shirt line and then next Fall, I got some more denim and some more leather and shit like that.  It actually doesn’t really take up that much of my time.  Thinking about the designs is actually really easy.  Like, ‘Yeah, I wanna wear this‘.

I saw those [Volcom] Road Tests. Those looked pretty sweet.

Oh!  We were fucked up the whole time.  And actually, we’re meeting the same videographer, the Volcom dude.  He’s flying out and we’re gonna do more.  I was like, ‘Oh, we’re gonna get fucked up and party!‘ and he’s like, ‘That’s right, whatever‘.  I mean, we go ON.  He’ll spend the night with us for days and be filmin’ like coo coo shit.  Too hot for YouTube!  No, like I’m just saying…just shit like, what purpose is that gonna serve, other than to freak people out?

You guys were supposed to be in Canada this week, right?

*Sigh* Yes…Um well, the thing is, it was a whole bunch of circumstances.  Like one being, you know, I had a DUI.  But I’ve been in Canada and toured many times and I had a DUI seven years ago.  So I don’t think it was really just that.  Cause like the guy called me up and was like ‘Yeah, so you’ve been arrested‘ and I’m like ‘Da da da…what do you want me to do?” and he’s like, ‘Don’t worry about it. Just sit down. I don’t think ya’ll are getting in because your paperwork’s fucked and da da da da da…“

And it’s ok.  It was nice to be just hangin’ out at Will [Klintberg of Wildildlife/Tit Pig]‘s on the couch for a minute, anyway.  I left the house for the first time today.  I have just been on that fucking couch listening to music, like smoking weed, and sleeping, and then watching movies, and sleeping, and the deck and then sleeping.  I contemplated a shower, but no…

Well last night, [the band] came in.  They all did a bunch of fucking acid.  Brian was ok, he just forgot he had arms.  I was like, ‘What are you talking about? You have arms.‘  I wasn’t even talking to him about the arms.  And then Kurt just did a faceplant dive into the white carpet.  I was like, ‘Oh, shit!‘ and made sure he was fine.  Will thought he was fucked.  I was like, ‘Ah no, he’s fine. He’s fine.‘  Kurt kept rolling around like a beached whale.  I don’t know if they [Will & opening band Broken Nobles] we’re trippin’ but [RTX] were super fuckin’ trippin’ their asses off.

You’ve played The Comet, too.

Yeah, that was actually my favorite club here.  Like when I was a teenager growing up, we used to play the Crocodile and different places like that.  I didn’t come this way for a long time and, when I started RTX and we started touring, we played the Comet.  We played Neumos first.  I love Neumos, I love the stage, I love the sound, I love the whole setup of it.  But even though they had a great dressing room and everything like that, you just didn’t feel the people. You didn’t feel like you were in Seattle hanging out, shit like that.  So at the Comet, that’s exactly what we felt like.  People were just rollin’ in, like locals drinkin’, sitting up there. I always had a great time there, every time.

How long you been surfing?

Nine years.  Dude, I was a lifeguard growing up.  I swam swim team.  But it is hard.  The paddle out, like, it’s super- it’s upper body strength.  It’s like doing the butterfly.  It’s not like anything else.  It’s very upper body oriented.

What’s your favorite surfing spot?

I live right on PCH, Pacific Coast Highway.  So, we just walk over and we just go there.  It’s literally “Surf City, USA“.  That’s what it’s called, so it’s the shit.  We live in Sunset Beach, Huntington Harbor, and then there’s the Bulsa Chica Wetlands and the Indian Burial Grounds.  You pass by that two miles and you’re at the Huntington Pier where we just had the whole fuckin’ US Open of Surf and every fuckin’ thing.  It was just this huge thing.

But actually, I was really looking forward to a little bit of East coast, chill flavor up here.  Coming North, you might even, you know, put on a sweatshirt or something.

You interviewed Keith Richards.  What was that like?

It was awesome, but what was really weird was that my ex-husband, Neil [Hagerty] at the time… Neil, you know, he’s an amazing guitar player and I think he does rival Keith Richards, other than that I think he has social skill problems and he’s got personal, you know, he can’t… um, anyway, he was gonna be a big part of that interview.  Then he got in the door and introduced himself and was like, ‘Yeah, you know. I really just can’t do this. I’ll see you later.” and just walked.  And I called him, ‘Are you kidding me?‘ He was rude. “You’re gonna be fucking rude to Keith? And Bobby Keith’s standing there and you leave me!‘.  So we just sat there and I picked up a cigarette and Keith lit it for me.  He’s like, ‘Aw, It’s good, young love, young love.‘ and I was like ‘Yeah, whatever dude. I don’t know.‘  We talked for like three, four hours.  Actually, we got fucked up.  But he’s very charming, very funny.

British people are naturally charming…

Actually, I find it quite the opposite.  No, no, I’m not trying to be “opposite girl” but I’ve been over there so many times when I hear that accent, I’m like, ‘Oh, oh…“  They are bummer time and their education system, like, we could kill them.  It’s crazy!  It’s terrible to say.  We’re the new country.  It’s centuries and centuries of supposed functionality and progressive movement.  Yet, last time I went there, the electricity went out in our friend’s house and I had to put a coin in the goddamn ‘thing’ on the corner.

There’s a ‘thing’?

Oh yeah!  And there was no showers, it’s all baths.  It just a fuckin’ ass, they’re just old school.  And you know what?  They probably think that’s really cool.  I don’t.  I’m all about progress.  Like, keep your old school shit in tact.  Keep it historically preserved, but are you kidding me?  You can’t even get a shower?  And you have to run to the corner to put a coin in for your fuckin’ electricity in this day and age?

Lil’ Wayne has this new song out and it samples Harry Belefonte‘s, you know, the “banana song“.  This band will no longer be called RTX as of January.  We changed our name to “Black Bananas” and we already copywrit it.  Then Lil’ Wayne came out with a song that sounds exactly like one of ours called “Black Bananas“.

Are you guys gonna collaborate with Lil’ Wayne?

I think he wants to.  He did get in touch with our manager.  But It’s very strange.

Wait, is it like, ‘Daylight comin’ and I want to go home.‘?

Yeah, yeah! ‘Hot banana…‘  I love it.  I think it’s great.  Because it sounds like us, but not as great.

*At this point, the owner of the bright blue Miata asked us to get off the bumper.*

“This is my parked car…“

Oh dude!  We were thinking about it, but we were very careful… Sorry.
*to me* It’s a fuckin’ Miata.  I’ll smash it, whatever.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

The RTX/Heavy Cream “Killer Weed”/“Deadbeat” split 7″
is available now through Volcom.

Look for the new RTX album “RAD TIMES IV” in Januray of 2012 on Drag City.

LINKS:

peep out the following Jennifer Herrema-related links…

RTX on Myspace
RTX Drag City artist page
Jennifer Herrema’s Volcom collection
Royal Trux Drag City artist page
Royal Trux Domino Records artist page

The Writer:

Text and photography (images 1 & 3) by Marielle of WT DVL.
More of her work can be found at WTDVL.Tumblr.com

Neil Michael Hagerty is an American guitarist/singer/songwriter/producer who first captured the imagination of the underground music community as a guitarist/contributing songwriter in Jon Spencer‘s pre-Blues Explosion avant punk band, Pussy Garlore.  Following their break up, Hagerty and then-girlfriend, Jennifer Herrema formed the band that he is the most well known for, Royal Trux.  This new project applied Ornette Coleman‘s musical philosophy of harmolodics to a trashy rock and roll sound equally influenced by the Rolling Stones, Grateful Dead, and Velvet Underground.  The duo released 4 albums and countless singles as the flagship band for the fledgling Drag City Records (their “Hero Zero” single was the very first release for the label) before signing a 3 album deal with Virgin Records, as part of the nineties “indie/alternative rock” corporate signing frenzy.  After their second major label album, Sweet Sixteen, was critically trashed and underperformed at record stores, the Trux were dropped from Virgin and returned to Drag City for 3 albums, two eps, and a singles compilation.  Some time in 2000, Neil Hagerty and Jennifer Herrema split up and the Royal Trux ended.

In 2001, Drag City published a Hagerty-penned comic book called, The Adventures of Royal Trux – Vol 1 #10 that hints at some of the reasons for Royal Trux‘s split.  This was followed by three albums released under Hagerty‘s own name – Neil Michael Hagerty (2001), Plays That Good Old Rock and Roll (2002), and Neil Michael Hagerty & The Howling Hex (2003).

In 2004, Hagerty started releasing records under the moniker of “The Howling Hex“, with 2005‘s All Night Fox becoming a personal favorite of mine.  The most recent Howling Hex release, Victory Chimp, is actually a highly ambitious 4xCD (3hr 19 min) audio book version of a 157 page sci-fi paperback that Hagerty originally published in 1997, during his Royal Trux days.  The story centers around a chimp master of the multiverse “rattling the cages of freedom.” It’s also one of the fucking weirdest recordings I’ve ever heard in my life.  Seriously nutty stuff…

Along with releasing this newer Howling Hex material, Drag City recently took all of the Royal Trux albums out of print and has been reissuing them -one at a time- on gatefold vinyl, over the past few years.  Another reissue (maybe Accelerator?) is due out in November.

I recently had the opportunity to ask Hagerty some questions about his bands, Victory Chimp, comic books, baked beans, and where the music industry is today.  Some of these questions may dig a little deep, but pretty much every other Hagerty interview that I’ve found on the internet seems to ask the same questions: “You used to do drugs, huh?” “Why did Pussy Galore cover a whole Rolling Stones album?“, “What was David Briggs like?” etc.  That information’s been covered.  Hopefully there’s something new in here for the hardcore NMH fans and something worthwhile for anyone discovering his work for the first time.

Enjoy.

BP: What made you decide to do a 4 cd audio album of a book that’s been out of print for almost a decade?

NMH: The time seemed right to look back at the 80s, personally and ‘at large’– and I have been feeling weird about having that book out there floating around without any context other than it was by some guy in an indie band from the 90s.  I wanted to put the book into an easy to consume version using sound to flesh it out.

One thing that I love about the Victory Chimp album is that there’s all of the music, halves of songs, and weird sounds going on.  You can listen to it while working, without paying attention to the narrative.  What  made you decide to construct it this way?

I just wanted it to be useful.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Is Victory Chimp supposed to take place in the same creative universe as the Adventures of Royal Trux comic book?  I guess that what I’m really asking is if there is only one Victory Chimp in the multiverse.

Yes, I like the idea of a “universe” that you can keep going back to, telling stories different there (ie, Discworld, Dr. Who)– someday I hope to see FanFic of it.  There’s only one VC in any multiverse, but probably many in the universe of multiple multiverses.

So, he’s kind of like Uatu the watcher?

Like Uatu confronted by fundamentalist Christians, like he can’t maintain his aloofness because they’re always trying to convert him.  One of the main inspirations for VC was this book called “Scop” by Barry Malzberg about a guy from the future who keeps trying to go back and stop the Kennedy assassination, but screws it up each time and makes things worse.

I have always thought that it was cool how the Royal Trux comic book was split into chapters; kind of like early issues of Fantastic Four.  Did you read many Marvel comics growing up?

Heh, you caught me.  I loved Marvel in the 70s when I was a little kid: The Avengers, Daredevil and Iron Man.

[^ click  to enlarge ^]Were you a fan of the Hostess ads where Spiderman or The Thing or Hulk or whoever would stop criminals with fruit pies and cupcakes?  I have noticed that Hero Zero uses similar crime fighting tactics.

Yes!!  I wanted the story to be completely set in the universe of an old Marvel comic.

It was a big surprise to me when you released Rogue Moon on Golden Lab records, after pretty much releasing all of your albums on Drag City since Royal Trux (besides the two albums on virgin, obviously…)  What made you decide to work with another label all of a sudden?  You must have had offers from other labels before, right?

The Golden Lab guy just contacted me cold and, after sort of going back and forth with him for a couple years, we ended up putting that out with him.  One of the reasons was he was from Manchester, UK (that’s a big deal to me)– and the band was really scattered around the country, so doing a record in pieces like that, based on the book (which could help me prepare for doing Victory Chimp,) was a good way to work.  And most of all, since it was on this little label, we could get it out without too much attention.

Click here to view the embedded video.

What’s the appeal of manchester, uk?  Are you a fan of a lot of the bands from there like The Fall and all the Factory Records bands, or just the city in general?   Mostly I’m asking, because it doesn’t seem to show in your discography.  You seem to have such an American sound.

I’m a fan of all those bands 70s-90s, just how they developed in that environment, the industrial history of the place, that mood, or my fantasy of it, etc.

The live tracks on the Neil Michael Hagerty and the Howling Hex double lp are some of my favorite recordings in your career.  Have you ever thought of doing a live album?  If not, why?

I think I will do that someday, like all my favorite songs redone live.

Had you always intended on Weird War being a one album thing?  Or, at least, as far as your involvement with the band?  Was it weird when Scene Creamers went back to using the “Weird War” band name?

I didn’t really know, I enjoyed collaborating with Ian (Svenonius) and Michelle (Mae), but it seemed like we held it together just long enough to do the record.  After that, there might have been trouble.  Since doing that band was their idea, I was ok with them using the name again.

What made you switch from using your own name to “Howling Hex”?

I wanted to add more H’s to the name, so it was like Davy Allen and the Arrows, but with H’s.  It also reminded me of the Joe Walsh solo/Barnstorm non-distinction, just a great tradition of muddled communication.

Click here to view the embedded video.

What happened to the ladies from All Night Fox?  I loved their singing.  I thought that I had heard one of them singing on Rogue Moon and Victory Chimp, but maybe I’m wrong.

Alas, they all moved on.  Rogue Moon had a new person named Evrim, but she went to Portland.  C’est la vie.

Why didn’t All Night Fox ever come out on vinyl?

Timing, really.  Drag City didn’t want to do it at that moment, since sales were slow or something.  Hopefully they will put all of the non-vinyl out someday.

Not sure if you’re into Facebook or not, but there’s an “I bet i can find 500 people who would buy All night Fox on vinyl” group.”  I guess that’s not really a question, but thought I should mention it.

Drag City better get off their asses.

One last “all night fox” related question (sorry, it’s one of my favorite albums ever…).  When it came out i was blown away by the use of reverb on all of the vocals.  It seemed so new at the time.  Now it seems like half of the lo-fi/indie/etc. bands in the world are putting a ton of reveb on every single instrument, vocal track, etc.  What do you think about this?  I don’t know if this is All Night Fox inspired, but it still seems like you predicted a musical trend by half of a decade.  Do you listen to much new music these days?

I listen to all new music I can, but I try to mix my impressions of it with my own musical comfort zone, not to chase anything and all that.

I’ve noticed that baked beans are a reoccurring lyrical theme on the Howling Hex albums.  Are they one of your favorite foods?  I’ve recently gotten into cooking them at home.  Have you ever tried making them?  Any recipe tips?

No, I haven’t cooked them, don’t eat them much.  To me it was just funny that a population of humans might one day crown a can of baked beans as their king.

Why did you decide to go for the multiple song writer approach on Howling Hex XI / Monster Bird?  I guess you did the same thing on Rogue Moon.  Is the upcoming Howling Hex album going to be the same way?

The new Hex record is like Earth Junk– in fact, that’s probably going to be the template for the new band.  Earlier there was that phase of the group approach, songwriting and arranging all shared.  I just try to make something each time out that is at least interesting, and changing around the process is one way I do that.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Who’s in the new line up of Howling Hex?  When you say it’s like Earth Junk, does that also mean there will be no drums?  Any plans to tour in support of the new album?  I can’t remember you coming to the Portland/Seattle area since 2006, so it would be a nice treat.

I think there’s gonna be a new, new lineup so we’ll see.  I’m going to move to a new city and go from there.  And yes, there’s no drums on the next record, just sort of ended up that way like Earth Junk did– so I’ve been consistent.

Any chance of re-releasing the Royal Trux fan club cassettes as part of the Royal Trux reissue campaign that Drag City has been doing the past few years?

I don’t think DDC will do it.  In fact, I don’t know who has the masters of those cassettes– really, if anyone has a copy they should just re-issue it.

Another drag city reissue related question: why are Singles, Live, Unreleased, Accelerator, Veterans of Disorder, and Pound for Pound currently out of print?  I know that they used to be on iTunes, but Drag City took them off  of there when the reissue campaign started.  Why not just keep the albums in print if they’re being reissued on the same label?  It seems weird that the only people making money off of these records at the moment are weirdos on ebay.

What Drag City do I try not to pay attention to very much.  I think they’re feeling their way through this ‘era’– trying to figure out what a label does nowadays.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Around 2005, there was talk of Drag City releasing a Royal Trux dvd with What is Royal Trux?, Live in Cleveland, and a few music videos on it.  Whatever happened with that release?  Is it something that could still happen?

That must have come from Jennifer (Herrema), I can’t recall hearing about that.

I remember reading an interview with Royal Trux in Wire Magazine where you mentioned that you usually play on the albums that you produce, but there weren’t any of your guitar solos on Bill Callahan’s Woke On a Whaleheart album.  Why not?

Heh.  ALL of the guitar solos are me– but it’s a secret.

Are you still doing production work for other musicians?  I haven’t heard of anything since the Bill Callahan album.

Haven’t done much since working with Bill.  I did some stuff with that singer Evrim, but just mixing etc.

Are there any artists that you would want to work with?  Sometimes when I listen to Marnie Stern, I think about how it would sound cool with NMH production.  It’s the same thing with Wooden Wand.  There was a Danielson interview on Pitchfork a few months ago where he said that if he could work with any artist that it would be you.  Do you get solicited by other musicians often?

It comes and goes, but I have been living down near the border in New Mexico for a long time, so I am kind of out of it.  I’m going to move back to the city this year, so I can be a part of civilization again.

One last question, it seems like besides you and David Berman, all the original Drag City artists seem to be going in a more commercial friendly direction.  Bill Callahan is recording really clean sounding records with John Congleton, Will Oldham is playing folk and blue grass festivals and also making really clean records, Stephen Malkmus is chasing the 90′s nostalgia money… but, since the release of the Neil michael Hagerty and the Howling Hex double lp, you have seemed to go in a weirder and weirder direction.  Have there been any ATP offers for you to do something like a concert tour of Accelerator live or any pressure for you to make a straight forward rock and roll record?   Or do you just try to ignore what’s going on in the music industry right now?

There are some explanations for this. First: in Royal Trux and, to a lesser extent, Pussy Galore I did all the things I wanted to do in ROCK…jets, roadies, expensive equipment, wimmins, death, money, drugs, 6 month recording schedules, hockey arenas, transatlantic fame– whatever it might be, I feel like I did it and so that’s done.  Second: I truly dislike Americana, white blues, metal, country music, ukuleles etc– I think it is all unpleasant.  So I don’t really want to get involved with any of that bullshit again.  The first three solo records I did, I tried to round all the bases and do really synthetic coverage of various styles that people seem to consider classic, meaningful, soulful or real; to satirize them in a self-destructive way.  So, now I’m done with that and I can just play what I hear and earn about as much money as you’d get in a semi-decent job.  I’ve gotten a lot of offers for Royal Trux reunions, or even for Hex to play at festivals or other similar things, but I’d never do it.  I’d like a band to stay broken up for a change and also, I really hate those big festivals which seem to be the main direction things are going in, big conglomerated events.  I really like a small nightclub vibe most of all.

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LINKS:

peep out the following NMH-related links…

Howling Hex official website
Howling Hex Drag City artist page
Royal Trux Drag City artist page
Royal Trux Domino Records artist page

The Writer:

Benjamin Parrish lives in Portland, Oregon where he pets cats, eats pizza, draws comics, listens to records, grills up BBQ, and runs the cassette label Dog Daze Tapes.

To check out more of Ben’s illustration & comic work… visit his Tumblr Site NOW!

The following piece/interview was originally written/conducted way back in March and was done so for an upstart print publication that, to my understanding, was to be distributed Nationally.  At that time, there wasn’t a ton of information available regarding Gang Gang Dance’s latest album, Eye Contact, or pertaining exactly to the future plans of the group creating it.  Since my interview, the album has been released to critical acclaim, Gang Gang has already performed their scheduled slot at the Animal Collective-curated ATP event in Minehead, UK, and the band has even announced a slew of upcoming US tour dates.  Although I wasn’t compensated monetarily for the work that I had put into this piece, I was still happy to contribute freely to a new publication, welcoming the opportunity to collaborate on an outside project and to help in its fruition as it grew into whatever it is destined to become.  As for publishing rights, no contracts were signed and, beyond the initial contact with the publicist -whose contact information I had already possessed- all follow up, research, editing, additional contact, and writing was handled by myself.

It would have been great to be the first to provide some “scoops” regarding the album, but it takes a lot to get a new magazine off of the ground and that includes time.  I, of course, never posted the interview here on Monster Fresh, so as not to conflict with the publication that it was originally intended to run in.  A couple of months passed, without any real updates.  I sent an email inquiring about progress with the project, but never heard back.  Eventually, I heard that the magazine had gone into print, but still can’t figure out how to obtain a copy locally or where to instruct anyone to pick one up in their local areas.  I haven’t even seen a copy in person, myself.  My hopes were to help promote the project and alert everyone to it’s existence, but my main goals with writing are to compile information and to make it as available as possible.  Of course, I was also hoping to see my work in print (which it apparently is) and to try and avoid recklessly burning another bridge (which I’m openly risking by posting this now).  As someone who operates an outlet of their own, I’m a firm believer in keeping those who contribute in the loop with the progress of their work.  This is especially true when they aren’t even receiving any real compensation for the work that they provide, other than the pride, outlet, and audience they are creating for.  In my particular situation, I didn’t need the connections or the forum.  I was/am proud of this piece but, as it stands now, I feel as if I’ve put my energy into something that someone else has locked into a box somewhere and have no real understanding of what is happening with it.  I wish no ill will towards the publication and hope to see it surface and do well at some point but, after this much time has passed with consistently little or no response, I feel that it’s time to put this interview up for those that want to read it and have, up until now, been unable to do so.  Like I said, this was originally conducted a full 4-months ago, at this point, but I tried to construct it in a manner that would allow the information to remain consistently relevant.  I hope that endeavor proves to be successful.

as always, thanks for reading.

-Dead C

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INTERVIEW w/BRIAN DEGRAW

It’s been a full decade since Brian Degraw, Tim Dewit, Lizzie Bougatsos, Nathan Maddox, and Josh Diamond first came together to form Manhattan’s experimental music collective, Gang Gang Dance, under the temporary moniker of “Death & Dying”.  By the turn of the millennium, their individual involvements with such acts as Cranium, Actress, Russia, Jackie-O Motherfucker, and SSAB Songs (with filmmaker Harmony Korine), had already made them regular fixtures in New York City’s art and music scenes, respectively.  However, it wasn’t until they began working with each other that the members truly found a vehicle that would allow them to both, materialize their full potentials, as well as to expand organically.  Drawing on a range of influences and backgrounds in the DJ-ing, music, film, performance, and visual arts worlds, Gang Gang Dance has continually challenged the boundaries of what actually constitutes a “rock band” and music in general.  Everything from “Ambient”, “Psychedelic”, and “noise” to “Eastern”, “Tribal Futuristic”, and “Electronica” have all been used to describe the sounds extruded by these auditory shapeshifters.  Then, there are others who have been known to refer to the group, quite simply, as “cursed”.  This inability to easily categorize their music goes hand in hand with the chameleonic nature of Gang Gang Dance but, if there are any words that could adequately embody the nature of the group, “experimentation”, “evolution”, and “resiliency” would have to be 3 of them.

Just prior to the release of their self-titled studio debut, Nathan Maddox was struck by lightning and killed.  This tragedy only worked to strengthen their resolve as a unit and, since then, Nathan’s voice and/or eyes have appeared on every one of the subsequent GGD releases.  When God’s Money dropped in 2005, it was a critical breakthrough for the band.  Their process of creating songs by pulling segments from their practice tapes of free-form improvisations hadn’t changed, but the songs on it were widely considered to be more “accessible”.  In reality, they were just becoming more adept at harnessing and refocusing the musical thunderstorms that they’ve been known for conjuring up.  The heightened anticipation for their next release seemed to create a new level of pressure for a band who had never been accustomed to creating with any outside expectations.  2007 brought the 3-song EP, Rawwar and an abstract DVD/CD titled, Retina Riddim, but their full-length was being delayed by inner conflicts, alternate responsibilities, and a lack of funds; forcing them to play one-off shows just to finance more studio time.  Tim Dewitt decided that he didn’t feel like playing drums anymore, opting to quit the group and focus on his production work as “Dutch E. Germ”.  He was present for a music-based/performance-art piece that GGD presented for the Whitney Museum’s 2008 Biennial but, after that, he was pretty much gone.  That June, Dewitt was also shot and temporarily, maimed as he drunkenly stumbled in on a bar robbery in his Michigan hometown.  He was eventually replaced with drummer, Jesse Lee.  That August the group went on to conduct the Brooklyn section of the Boredom’s massive percussion extravaganza, 88 Boadrum.  Multiple albums worth of material was scrapped and, when St. Dymphna finally did surface in September of 08, the majority of the music that it contained had only been composed within the last month and a half prior to it’s release.  It was a bit more dance-oriented than their previous efforts, but it also showed the band garnering even more rave reviews and finding themselves on multiple “best of the year” lists.   While addressing the sizeable gap between releases, GGD announced that they would begin work on their next album the following January but, in February, the majority of their gear was destroyed in an electrical fire at a club in Amsterdam.  The room that was storing their equipment was the only one in the entire venue to be effected by the disaster.  Ironically enough, the fire was also reportedly caused by a recently installed smoke detector.  That was over two years ago.

In an age where the musical climate tends to flip on itself like a Jacob’s ladder, the attention span of consumers is shorter than ever, and so many acts are concerned with keeping their faces in the public eye, Gang Gang Dance doesn’t seem to mind slipping into the background, working in solitude, and allowing themselves to be rediscovered every few years so.  Last year saw the band successfully requesting royalties from Florence and the Machine -due to copyright infringement- and releasing the Kamakura EP, which consisted of a single 15 min. track that was originally recorded in 2007.   Other than that, however, they’ve been fairly quiet.  After 3 years, little has been announced regarding their latest follow-up, EYE CONTACT, except for the May 9th release date and a sprawling 11 ½ minute track called “Glass Jar” streaming on the front page of GangGangDance.com.  While they are as often associated with the prominently mixed, up-front rhythms of early post-punk counterparts like ESG and Liquid Liquid, as they are with the gritty, layered waves of electro static delivered by contemporaries like Animal Collective and Black Dice (both of which they once shared a practice space with), “Glass Jar” exhibits a more calculated, fluid, and tantric Gang Gang Dance than ever before.  In an attempt to discover more about the upcoming album, the process behind it’s creation, and what the future holds for the group, we went right to the source and reached out to keyboardist/visual-artist/founding member, Brian Degraw, himself.

DEAD C: The latest promotional photos that I’ve seen feature 5 people.  Is artist/photographer, Taka Imamura now a member and, if so, how did that come about?

BRIAN DEGRAW: Yeah.  Taka is a member for as long as he wants to be.  We have known him since we moved to NYC.  He has been a constant figure and very dear friend and inspiration to all of us for many years.  A few years ago, he started traveling with us on tour and, once we experienced that, it was very hard to imagine doing anything without him.  Taka is pure magik… absolutely one of the greatest, kindest, and most centered spirits I have ever encountered in this life.

I understand that Jesse melded incredibly well into the group, but Tim was such an integral part of the development, before Gang Gang Dance even had a name.  What was that transitional point like for you when he first decided that he didn’t want to play drums anymore and left to work on other projects?

I’m not totally comfortable talking about this, because Tim’s exit as an active member wasn’t exactly the most pleasant or well defined experience.  But I will say that he definitely was an extremely integral part of the group from day one… or even before day one.  Tim and I played music together for years and years in various bands and projects and without that experience we wouldn’t be who we are today.  I am really, really happy to see him working on his own music and helping others with his production skills and amazing ears.  He is unbelievably gifted.

Whenever I read about Nathan’s death, there’s an almost mystical quality surrounding it, as if that lightning bolt eternally burned his spirit into the emulsion of the band.  Besides the obvious unification through tragedy, how has that incident permanently affected or fueled the spirit behind the band itself?

Nathan’s ascension was both tragic and glorious but, as strange as it may sound, I would have to say that the glory outweighs the tragedy.  I mean, the obvious element of tragedy was that we lost the physical being that we loved so much and we were no longer able to spend time with him here on earth, but the glory of it I think is much stronger.  Nathan is a true Shaman and his fascination with the otherworldly elements of this universe is definitely what led him into the sky.  In fact, he often would climb to the tops of trees or to the roofs of tall buildings and ask the sky to take him.  So, really I am happy that he achieved this ascension with such grace and determination.  The poetic elements of his life and death are so unbelievably powerful that I always find it hard to explain within the context of one question in an interview.  His story really deserves volumes upon volumes.  But yeah, Nate is a driving force within our group and seemingly within the lives of every single person that knew him.  I feel him all the time and I look to him for knowledge and guidance… and he does indeed answer back.

With anyone else, I wouldn’t even bother asking about the meaning behind an album title.  However, I’m aware that the last 2 full-lengths (Gods Money and St. Dymphna) were given their titles for very specific reasons and I am curious to know why the name “Eye Contact” was chosen for this upcoming release.

Eye Contact came about for a few different reasons.  The term got stuck in my head after a night of practice a while back.  We had been rehearsing upstate at the house we have been renting.  Taka’s dog, “Baby” was up here with him sleeping on one of the beds in the room where everyone crashes.  In the morning, Jesse woke up first and opened his eyes to find Baby just opening her eyes and they shared a moment of strong eye contact.  So I was thinking about how nice the term is.  I liked the way the words looked together and I liked the multitude of thoughts that it evoked.  And the visuals I get when I imagine the term are close to me because all of our artwork has always been centered around Nathans eyes; he had the most amazing eyes.  So there was a connection there somewhere.

But the decision was made final after hearing the completed mix of the record. In the past, I think much of the music we have made seems to evoke the idea of escaping into the ether and, when we perform on stage, it has often been about closing our eyes and drifting off into this dreamscape.  With this record, it sounded different to me and I didn’t equate it with that closing of the eyes.  When I heard it completed, I imagined very much the opposite… like this one was more about having your eyes wide open and confronting the music and the environment very directly… staring the listener in the eye.

For a group that places importance on the sequencing and album structure to create one complete and fluid product, how difficult is it to select one simple piece for use as a “SINGLE” and how well do you think that “Glass Jar” represents the album as a whole?

Well… I don’t think we have it in us to think in terms of “singles” really.  A record label always needs a song to put out there initially before the whole album drops.  Its nothing more than logistics really.  I’m happy to have used “Glass Jar” as that song though, mostly because it’s the opposite of a single.  I think it’s actually a really good representation of how we feel about all those logistics and where we stand within them.

Click here to view the embedded video.

I’ve heard the different members describe your music in terms of texture, shape, and color, and that shared interpretation of sound seems to be something that helps in your communication with one another.  Is that a fair assessment to make?

Yes.  I have always heard music in a very visual way so, for me personally, it makes way more sense than talking about notes or directly referring to sound.  Josh was telling me that he never had that same visual relationship to sound in the past, but has recently begun to see the music.  I think his musical third eye opened at a Black Dice listening party, which makes complete sense.

How would you go about describing the visual aesthetics behind this new release?

Like a very darkly colored egg that bleeds iridescent colors once you crack it open.

I’ve been relistening to Gods Money and St. Dymphna a lot lately and I’ve noticed that the music often appears to be breathing.   On some tracks, I can almost envision a dragon-like beast rising up slowly and majestically learning to walk and move around.  In creating new music, is there a moment that you wait for where it all clicks and comes to life for you?

Yeah, we always call it the “magic layer”.  We are never satisfied until we hear that layer.  The mystery of it is that we still don’t know how it’s achieved; it just seems to happen at some point.

Historically, a lot of your final recordings have developed out of experimentation together in practice spaces and studios, but I recently heard that a lot more individual composition has taken place and was brought to the group later, for this album.  Is that correct?

Hmmm…..no…. I don’t think that’s the case.   If anything, I would say that this record has the least amount of improvised material on it, within the context of all of our releases, but there certainly wasn’t anyone coming into the studio with chord progressions written in a notebook or anything like that.  I think it’s more just that the songs were more completed than usual, when it came time to go into the studio.  Whereas, in the past, most of the record would be written in the studio while improvising.

The St. Dymphna recordings were plagued with multiple interruptions, damaging the momentum and causing delays.  Did it go any smoother this time around?  Did signing with 4AD provide you with any more financial stability to allow you to focus on the work?

Yeah, definitely.  There was much less tension involved in getting this record together.  The songs were pretty much where we wanted them to be already, so that gave us a lot more breathing room in the studio.  I’d say the environments that we were working in during each phase of this record made a really big difference in terms of momentum as well.  We started by recording demo versions for three weeks at a friend’s house in the desert of Wonder Valley, out near Joshua Tree.  Tracking was done at this studio called Dreamland in upstate NY.  It’s a giant church with super high ceilings and just a generally relaxing vibe.  Then we did all the mixing up in Tivoli NY at the house we were renting.   So, all in all, every phase avoided the city clutter and chaos that we have always been limited to in the past.  There were a lot of windows involved throughout the creation of the record… windows with really beautiful views.

You’ve mentioned leaving New York for a more serene place.   What effect did you find recording in Joshua Tree and the location near Woodstock to have on your sound?  How much of your sound and approach is affected by your environment or by an attempt to transcend it?

I think I answered this for the most part in the last question, but yeah.  For me personally, environment has become absolutely crucial.  And I don’t mean this in any dvia-esque or extravagant way, I just mean simply trying out different environments and embracing serenity, rather than being chained to the city streets and dirty air.  We are already talking about doing our next record on the beach.  I am really interested to see what a few months of working in that environment would do to the music.

Did much of the material from those original Joshua Tree recordings even make It to the album?

Most of the songs made it, but not the actual recorded desert versions.  There were a few that didn’t make it.  We were sort of forced to stop working on them because, very soon after we began writing them, our gear was destroyed in a fire at a club in Amsterdam.

You guys have become notorious for scrapping multiple albums worth of material and starting over from scratch.  Do you view those sessions as wasted time or as a productive part of the evolution that’s necessary to move you towards the final product?

I’d say about 70% of the time it’s been productive, but it’s really hard to say, because there are always different reasons why that has happened in the past.  Some of them have been completely absurd and counterproductive for sure.

If I’m remembering correctly, Retina Riddim (DVD) was composed of old archived audio.  Do you think that any more of the abandoned material will ever resurface in one form or another?

Retina Riddim was composed of some archived audio, but most of the sound was taken directly from my video camera.  Yeah, I’m sure, at some point, we will gather together some of the better stuff from our tape archives and release it or give it away or whatever.  We always talk about it, but it’s a slightly daunting task, given the amount of tapes we have from over the years.

The Whitney Biennial was another opportunity that really allowed you to incorporate your passions for visual arts with music.  Are there any plans to incorporate more of a visual element into your regular live shows?

Yes, definitely.  Just getting the ball rolling on that.  We really want to incorporate a more visual and theatrical element to the stage when we perform.

The first time that I saw you guys live was at the, now infamous, 2005 Chop Suey performance in Seattle.  As an audience member, things got somewhat confusing, but, from what I remember, there were some issues with the sound being cut off and with members of the opener, Bloodlines, being kicked out.   I was hoping that you might be able to clear up exactly what the situation was with that, during and afterward.  The police cars swarming in seemed a bit excessive.

Oh man……well…yeah … basically, the house sound guy was a complete douchebag that seemed to think it was his job to judge the quality of the opening band.  I guess he decided that they weren’t to his liking, so he cut their sound.  I had seen it happen many times before.  Tim and I used to be in a band with the singer of Bloodlines and we used to see it all the time.  People are often very uncomfortable when they are confronted with Jim’s (the singer) politics.  Oftentimes, these people tend to have some sort of homophobic qualities.  Anyway, this guy didn’t like them, so he cut off their sound and then, when we started playing, Raquel from Bloodlines went up to the sound guy douchebag and jokingly put her hands around his neck and made an obviously playful choking gesture to him.  So, he decide to have them thrown out of the club altogether.  They came up to the stage when we were playing and told us they were being kicked out, so we just stopped playing and decided to hand out all our gear to the audience as a form of protest.  Things got pretty wild and they cut the power on us too, but we had our own PA system and a lot of drums, so there wasn’t much they could do to stop the sound.   It was great.  And yeah, there were like 6 cop cars that showed up thinking the place was going to erupt into violence or something.  But, really it was fairly peaceful… more of a primal scream therapy session than any kind of violent action, I think.

I also saw you do a show with Marnie Stern at the The Triple Door, which is a seated Jazz club.  Do you approach different types of venues differently, are there environments that you feel more comfortable in, or does any of that even matter?

Yeah, I think we tend to perform better in tighter quarters where people can really connect on the same physical plane that we are on.  It’s often very strange for a band like us to be on a stage made for “entertaining”.  But, having said that, we have also had some pretty amazing experiences at festivals on really big stages.  But, I think, in those examples, we are feeding off of the aspect of being outdoors and feeling the breeze and things like that.

You played the ATP Festival back in 2005 and, this year, are scheduled to return to perform alongside old friends like Animal Collective and Black Dice.  Does it feel like you’ve come full circle, in some ways?

I don’t know if it really feels like that.  I’m just excited to be able to play with so many of our old friends and to spend time with them experiencing great music.

Are there still plans to remove the word “DANCE” from the band name?

Man… you really have done your homework.  Nah… I guess not.  I wanted to, but the idea got kinda boycotted.

What is the symbolism behind the owl imagery for you?   On your “Swine Mending” site, it appears that someone has even been making plaster casts of them at home.

I have been making plaster sculptures of owls as an homage to the garden owl and as a reference to the immortal spirituality of nature.  I like the idea of the owl silently watching humankind as they lead themselves into complete self destruction.

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LINKS:

Make sure to check out the following Gang Gang-related links

Official GGD website
GGD Blog
4AD Artist Page
On Facebook
On Myspace
On Twitter

TOUR DATES:

Here’s a current list of upcoming show dates…

• 14th July

  The Bishop, Bloomington

• 16th July

  Pitchfork Music Festival, Chicago

• 17th July

  Brillobox, Pittsburgh

• 18th July

  Rock and Roll Hotel, Washington DC

• 19th July

  Ottobar, Baltimore

• 20th July

  Johnny Brenda’s, Philadelphia

• 23rd September

  Midpoint Music Festival, Cincinnati

• 24th September

  Pygmalion Music Festival, Urbana

• 28th September

  Club Dada, Dallas

• 30th September

  Theatre Fru Fru, Mexico City

• 1st October

  Fitzgerald’s, Houston

• 3rd October

  Mohawk, Austin

• 5th October

  The Crescent Ballroom, Phoenix

• 7th October

  Casbah, San Diego

• 8th October

  Pappy & Harriets, Pioneertown

• 9th October

  Cultural Collide Festival, Los Angeles

• 10th October

  Henry Miller Memorial Library, Big Sur

• 11th October

  The Independent, San Francisco

• 13th October

  Holocene, Portland

• 14th October

  Neumos, Seattle

• 15th October

  The Biltmore Cabaret, Vancouver

• 18th October

  7th Street Entry, Minneapolis

• 19th October

  Majestic Theater, Madison

• 21st October

  123 Pleasant Street, Morgantown

Under the pseudonym of “Six Organs of Admittance“, Ben Chasny has carved out an impressive niche for himself as one of the most versatile guitarists of the last decade.  Carrying a torch lit by innovators like Bert Jansch, Masaki Batoh (Ghost), and Robbie Basho, Chasny’s dense, varied style of playing has consistently defied easy classification. In recent years, Ben has somehow found the time to work on collective ventures like Comets on Fire, Badgerlore, and Rangda (with Sir Richard Bishop), among many others.  As these collaborative projects have come and gone, it’s become increasingly clear that Chasny’s solo work remains the centerpiece of his musical pursuits.

This February saw the release of Asleep on the Floodplain, the thirteenth album for Six Organs of Admittance and, quite possibly, the finest under the moniker to date.  For Chasny, this latest effort marks a return to home recording and to songs focused on the acoustic guitar.  In part, the release is a meditation on the light, deserts, and water of the musician’s childhood; a time spent in Elk River, CA.  Delicate and melodic songs like “Hold But Let Go” and “Light of the Light” are woven between fuzzed-out tracks like “Brilliant Blue Sea Between Us” and “S/Word and Leviathan.”  Asleep on the Floodplain is representative of what Chasny does best: capturing a balance between melody and dissonance that is akin to no other.

With a handful of shows in the works, Ben Chasny took some time out of his schedule to discuss his latest release, his creation process, and the inspirations that have fueled them.

- R. Leuzinger

R.L.:  In April, you’ll be doing some shows with Will Oldham in support of his audiobook recording of Rudolph Wurlitzer’s Slow Fade.  What can audiences expect?

CHASNY: I don’t really know myself.  I’m just going to try to tastefully loiter in the background.

Is there any chance of you and Will recording an album together at some point?

No chance at all.  Not until I pay him back the money I owe him from a doomed poker game that went down in Italy in 2007.

You play a harmonium on some of the songs on Asleep on the Floodplain.  What drew you to the instrument?  Why was it right for this release?

For one, I had never used one on a Six Organs record before, so it was a new sound.  Another thing is it sort of has a wheezing, emphysema-like quality that goes well with my current age.

You’ve said that the work of the philosopher Gaston Bachelard had an impact on the creation of AOTF. In what way did his work affect the album?

He’s a pretty joyful writer for one.  Highly recommended.  He has also explored the ideas of memory in a particular way that gives a sort of valorization to childhood.  Also, he has a killer beard.

Has fiction served as an inspiration for the Six Organs of Admittance albums?  If so, who are some writers that inspire you?

Unfortunately I rarely read fiction.  Don’t hate me.

Arthur Magazine recently dissolved.  Arthur was a champion of your work and many of the musicians that you’ve collaborated with over the years.  It was where I first heard about your records.  Do you think that Arthur was able to capture an aspect of the avant-garde of the last decade that other forums haven’t?

I think Arthur had it’s own angle on things and combined that with a certain fashion element so that people who wouldn’t normally be interested in certain topics were exposed to them.

Are you a fan of Alejandro Jodorowsky’s work?  For some reason, when I hear your more dissonant jams I’m often reminded of scenes from El Topo.

Thank you.  That is a very nice compliment.  That is one of my favorite movies.

If your music had a landscape what would it be?

It would be in 4 dimensions so that sea and desert and forest would be one and the same place.  It wouldn’t correlate to any spatial-temporal zone.  Just kidding.  It would probably be like I-5 in California.

Do you have a specific scene or image in mind when you compose or improvise a piece of music.

Not really. I think more in terms of sound than images.  I guess that is why I don’t watch many movies.

How often do you pick up your guitar?

Almost every day, at least to doink around on it.

I heard that when you first started playing guitar you lived in seclusion for several years while honing your skills.  Is this true?

This is true.  I was only working for about 3 hours a day and the rest was filled with practice.  There wasn’t a lot of money.  I remember eating bow tie noodles and refried beans.  Not a good combo.

At last year’s Incubate Festival in the Netherlands you played at the Church of St. Paul.  Your performance was comprised of songs written specifically for the event, which drew their inspiration from historic chapels found outside Tilburg.  How did that project come about?  Have you drawn inspiration from religious iconography in the past?

That came about from conversations with people who do the Glocal project, which is a part of Incubate.  They suggested it and it sounded like a good idea.  I liked it because it dealt with a new plan for inspiration that was sort of outside how I usually thought about music. The event was so inspiring I decided to start up my old record label, Pavilion, in order to issue that performance and those songs on vinyl.  It’s at the pressing plant right now.

Is there a setting you’d like to play in but have never had the chance to?

I’d like to play on a cruise ship.  I notice more bands are doing that nowadays.

I thought that the cookbook on the Six Organs website was a nice touch.  Is cooking a big part of your life?  Any favorite recipes?

Cooking is a part of my life only in that I don’t go out much to eat.  I wouldn’t say I am a good cook though.  I don’t know, I liked the idea of having a cookbook where friends could put recipes on there but also where one could write ridiculous recipes. I was inspired by the futurist cookbook, which is pretty funny.

I’ve heard that you’re no longer living in Seattle.  Is there anything about the city that you miss?

This is true.  We moved across country in October.  Mostly I miss my good friends there – the ones from my hometown of Eureka and also one’s I met there, like the guys from Master Musicians of Bukkake and such.  I also miss the Pho.  And the water.

Click here to view the embedded video.

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Asleep on the Floodplain is available now from Drag City Records.

TOUR DATES:

w/Six Organs of Admittance:

April 8: Pappy and Harriets, Pioneertown, CA
April 11: McCabes, Santa Monica, CA
June 4: Cecil Sharp House, London, United Kingdom

w/Slow Fade tour

*Feat. Will Oldham (Bonnie ‘Prince’ Billy) & Elisa Ambrogio (Magik Markers)

SLOW FADE audiobook (out 4/19) as read by Will Oldham via Drag City
SLOW FADE the novel by Rudolph Wurlitzer (out 6/21) via Drag City

It was a hot day for November and it was the time of year when hotter than average days felt good.  At about 4pm, I was scheduled to interview Tetsu Fukagawa, the lead vocalist of the hardcore group, Envy, at Club Upset in Nagoya, Japan, a city of over two million people.

To get to the club from Nagoya Station, one has to take the subway to a little station called Ikeshita station.  Ikeshita station is a small subway station that contains a large bus station.  That day, it looked kind of dumpy, littered with cigarettes, Styrofoam noodle cups, and rustling brown leaves.  Pigeons waddled freely across the bricks, feeding on random morsels of refuse.  There is a large mural that is visible upon exiting the subway gates.  It is a highly textured, black and brown piece that appears to depict two long-necked birds facing each other.

I walked around the surrounding area looking for the club.  During my walk, I saw many cheap restaurants selling low quality chicken and cheap beer.  There was also an abundance of adult video arcades and openly publicized brothels. Suited men stood in front of the walls, which were plastered with large numbered photos of the young women working.  The defining features of the women’s faces were blurred out.

I eventually found Club Upset, which was located upstairs in a brick building, five floors above a pizza kitchen.  Once inside the door I came to a small lobby.  The walls were plastered with posters of shows past; almost exclusively Japanese acts.  There was also a small ticket booth, but nobody was in it, so I opened the thick black door opposite the unmanned station.  There was a small hallway that led to another thick black door; a sound proofing technique used by smaller clubs in Japan to avoid noise complaints.

The club was of modest size with a two-level, black and blue checkered board.  Envy’s two guitar players were on stage with their instruments.  The people in the room were surprised to see me and nobody seemed to know what I was talking about when I said that I was there for an interview.  Finally, after some discussion amongst various folks, the singer, Tetsu came out and said, “Hey.”  Then, in Japanese, he explained that he had to do a soundcheck, which might take about an hour, but that I could watch if I wanted, so that’s what I did.

It was nice to get to see the soundcheck.   Both guitar players and the bassist used many effects, primarily strumming their chords.  The drummer had about five microphones on his kit and, when he hit certain drums, it would make some of the lights above him shake.  Tetsu had his set-up in the middle of the stage, which consisted of one free standing microphone and another one that was positioned behind a small midi unite with a small keyboard.  During the more ambient parts of the songs, he played the keyboard and, primarily, spoke softly with his back to the floor.  As the songs picked up in volume and intensity, he would turn to face the floor and scream, while occasionally bending over to his left.  It was an effective technique; a simple staging that enhanced the arrangements of the music.

The entire sound check lasted about an hour.  After they were finished, they put their gear off to the side and the opening act, Nice View, began setting up for their sound check.  Somebody associated with the group informed me that Tetsu would be unable to do the interview, after all, but that guitarist, Nobukata Kawai would be available to take his place.  I told them that would be okay, although the questions that I had prepared for the interview were primarily about song writing and the use of both English and Japanese in Envy’s recordings.  Not only was it my first band interview, but it was my first interview done in Japanese, so I was a little bit nervous from the start.  Nobu had medium length hair and was dressed rather simply. Other than his hair, his appearance did not look particularly “rock”, or “hardcore”, or “scream”, or “emo”… or anything like that.  We began the interview in the main hall, sitting on a low standing area to the left of the stage.

D.W.Patton: Are you the lead guitarist?

Nobu: Yes I am

How long has Envy been together?

Envy started in 1995

Have you had any line up changes?

Back in 95, it was the singer Tetsu, the bassist Nakagawa(?)  And a drummer, who ended up quitting.  Then, in 97, a second guitar player, Masahiro joined.  And, since 1997, we’ve had the same lineup.

How did you decide on the name “Envy”?

From the start, it was a tough decision.  And we took a long time coming up with something.  Then, at last, we looked at a dictionary, and saw the word ‘envy,’ and thought,*pointing a finger to an air dictionary* “This is it!”  The meaning was not exactly good and a little bit negative.

Do you think that Envy’s music is negative?

Hmmm.   10 years ago, there were more negative parts, but in the years that followed, we’ve met many people and had many experiences and our way of thinking about music has changed.

So there was never any other band names before Envy?

From 1992, the bass player, Nakagawa, and Tetsu had a hardcore band for three years before starting Envy.  But, Envy is Envy.

Who writes the songs for Envy?

At first, I write all the music, then everybody arranges it together.  Every song is written like that.

Who writes the lyrics?

Tetsu writes all the lyrics.

Do Envy members have any side projects?

Not now.

Who is Metal Park?

He’s a friend who makes amazing music with only a sequencer, not a computer, just a sequencer and makes amazing music.

And he helped with the new album?

Yes, he helped a little with the new album.  Just with the ambient sounds.

Where was your first show in America?

Oh, where was it?  Our first tour…

*asking out to the other members who are doing things like checking their equipment and talking to the staff, roadies, and friends* Hey where was our first show in America!?

Tetsu: D.C.

Oh yea, it was in D.C., maybe.  With Malady.

How was the response?

oh…
[In English:. ..So fucking Crazy.]

Is the response to Envy in America different than that in Japan?

Yeah. *noticing that Nice View is about to do their soundcheck*
It’s going to get loud here, so let’s go upstairs.

[We head upstairs and continue the interview.]

We were talking about the difference between the response to ENVY in America and Japan.

It’s totally different.  As expected, American people are more direct. If the show is good, then they give a great response. But if there’s a bad show, *sighs, and looks disappointed* [in English: fuck.].  Fuck Envy.  So it’s always either, [English: “Envy is amazing,” or “Envy is fuck.”]  But, you know, America is a music country and an entertainment country, so there is always a response and the crowd knows what they want.

Which do you like more, playing live or recording.

Of course, live.  Recording is, well- I want to make a good recording, but live is the best.

Click here to view the embedded video.

Do you have a favorite place to play in Japan?

My favorite… hmm… Japan… can I answer about the past?

Sure

A long time ago, there was a good one.  Now there aren’t any, but Shinjuku (area of Tokyo) Loft was good. Before they changed the location, it was the best.  There was history to it.

Like CBGB?

Yeah, it was that kind of club with a lot of history.

What are your favorite places to play over seas?  Country or City.

Country?  America is fun.  The West is good.   We went from Seattle to L.A. and that was really fun.  Everyone enjoyed the shows and many people turned out.  I also like playing Germany.

Oh, Germany?

German people are really intelligent.  During the songs, they are really quiet and thinking about the music.  Then, at the end, they cheer loudly.  And lots of people come to our shows.   Opposite of that, Spain is also good and they are loud throughout the shows.

How about Japanese?

Hmm.  Well, Japanese crowds are always quiet.  Very Quiet.  But, it’s a good quiet.  And, in my music, these days, there are more and more quiet parts, so, when the people in the crowd are quiet, they are enjoying the music.

Where did you play in Seattle?

I can’t remember the name of the place, but it was where the singer from undertow worked (El Corazon).

Do you meet many fans who can speak Japanese when you’re playing abroad?

Only a few.   But, we’re in English speaking countries for a long time and we can’t speak much English, so when people sometimes speak Japanese to us, we are very happy.

What are you plans for future tours?

Next May, we want to go to Europe.  We’re not sure yet, but if we do that, then we want to take a break after that tour, then do some recording.

Do you tour every year?

After the Europe tour, we have no plans and want to spend some time in Tokyo.

Is Tokyo your home town?

No.  I’m from Fukuoka (largest city on Kyushuu Island).  None of us are originally from Tokyo.  Now we all live in Tokyo.

When did you move to Tokyo?

Over fifteen years ago.

Did you move there to start a band?

No, I just moved there because of my dad.

Well, thank you for your time.  This was my first interview in Japanese, and I’m afraid I’ve run out of questions.

A couple of hours later, the show started and, after a kick-ass set by Nice View, it was time to see Envy’s performance. The sound was not much different than the sound check, but the musicians played their music with more exaggerated body movements and the addition of head banging.   The show was good and the crowd was as quiet and relatively non-responsive as Nobu had said that Japanese crowds were, but there was an overall vibe that people were really enjoying themselves.

Envy’s music is not exactly melodic, nor is it exactly noise.   It’s a lot like a sea or windy day, in the respect that there are quiet parts and loud parts, but seldom, if ever, a moment of silence.  During the set, the bassist and guitar players spend most of their time looking at their strings, which adds to the introverted aesthetic and can be a lesson to young musicians to focus on their instruments over their poses (or, at least, to integrate looking at their instruments into their poses).  Tetsu wore a baseball ca with the bill tilted low over his bent down face, further adding to that introverted feel of the band.   When he sang, he would face upward and expose his face, as if his words flew in an arc from his mouth, landing from above into the ears of the audience.  His movements also seemed deliberately self-conscious; always bending over to the left.

The crowd was really into the show, though there was a lack of any kind of slam dancing.  Most people stood and stared calmly, not trying to show too much emotion.   Halfway through the set, Tetsu addressed the crowd in a very soft voice, explaining that the band had just toured the States and was happy to be back in Japan, while thanking everyone for coming to the show.   It was not a short address, but it wasn’t too long, either.  While Tetsu’s spoke, I couldn’t help but observe the audience members listening quietly and attentively to his words.  It was exactly what Nobu had been talking about when he had described Japanese crowds as being “quiet” and it seemed like a moment of genuine communication from the stage to audience.

If Envy’s music can be described as a storm of sound, then the speech was a quiet moment right between when the rain seems like it’s about to stop and when it really begins to pour.  And, like a storm, there were captivating moments during Envy’s set and there were monotonous ones.  There was an element of danger, as well as of surprise, and there were calm spaces that provided shelter from the most intense elements.  I left the show unable to recall one song standing out from another, but simply contemplating the atmosphere of sound that I had just finished experiencing.   Trying to find the words to describe the music that I had just witnessed, I couldn’t help but think back to Nobu’s words from the interview, “EnvyはＥｎｖｙ.” (“Envy is Envy”).

-D.W. Patton

1) He’s an African American artist on the brink of serious success, and…

2) He’s broaching stardom for his talents in more than one medium.

Not many people will argue with the fact that the newer outcrops of pop art, pop surrealism, and the like, have proven themselves to be more inclusive and accessible to artists of color than average.  At first glance, there is little doubt that there is a strong mix of major contributors to the scene, from various cultural backgrounds.  That being said, it seems odd that there aren’t more African American figures; a contradiction that I cannot make sense of.   Serge Gay is submitting his art and introducing himself later; allowing his work to speak for itself. His appearances in the “Bad Dads” exhibit and the upcoming “Quentin vs Coen” group show at the Bold Hype in NY (also presented by Spokeart) could be marking a shift in this traditionally insular art universe.  Serge could very well be helping to pave a new path for other young talented artists; as one can only hope.

Serge Gay Jr. is a versatile artist whose mastery of color and form, along with lush sceneries, creates a visual treat for the viewer.  He is skilled at adapting to various concepts while sticking with his signature style, often blending the figurative and the surreal with stunning technical acuity.  Of his paintings, my personal favorites are the ones like “Catching Haiti’s Beauty” or “City of New Kids in Town” where he is able to create colorful new worlds.  By providing a note of social commentary, these pieces and others become even more aesthetically complex and engrossing.  In short, the man has skills!   He’s a unique artist who is blazing a trail through the, sometimes, prickly art-world both in his hometown of San Francisco and beyond. When I see artists like this, who fearlessly showcases their talent with such grace and energy, I become freakishly hopeful that the art bubble might be eroding and that new artists might even find inspiration through such a rising star.

While Serge is gaining major traction on the gallery scene, he and video director, Matt Stawski are killing it with their music video work.  The type of exposure that he’s received for his artwork in high profile music videos is something that many artists and graphic designers can only dream about, and things are only getting better.  The duo have lent their talents to such popular bands as Train and Paramour, but have found some of their greatest success through their collaborations with former Goodie Mob member, Cee Lo Green.  Gay and Stawski are the visual masterminds behind such Green videos as “It’s Ok” and “Fuck You”, the latter of which resulted in bringing them a recent 2011 Grammy nomination.  The implications of such a Grammy nod is major for an artist who is not formally considered part of the “entertainment biz” and who is primarily known as a painter.  At this point, the Haitian-born Twenty-something is already raising eyebrows and accomplishing more than the average artist, who has been at it much longer.

-L. Lewis

LL: On your website it states that you are a painter, graphic designer and illustrator. Which of these disciplines interested you first?  Is there one that you identify with the most?  Which do you find most challenging?

SGJ: I identify myself most as a Painter.  That’s what I would say, sums myself as an artist in a nutshell.  Painting is my Number one passion and love.  Graphic Design is the most challenging for me.

How would you describe your work to someone, if you had no images to show them?

With one look, you will start to bleed out your eyes from this extraordinary delight and captivated beauty of art… end. LOL.

But I just discovered recently that my work is a diary.  This overview timeline of all my life’s experiences and the journeys that I’ve seen or felt strongly about at that moment of time.  So therefore, I love to create that world for people to see visually and to be touched in some kind of way or relate to.  That’s the only way I can let people understand who I really am as a person.

The Bad Dads show looked amazing, how did you get involved with that exhibit?

I just walk into that show with a piece in my hand, put it on the wall, and then walked away.  Just kidding, the guy who put together that wonderful show, (Ken Harman of Spoke Art) saw my work at another group show then asked me if I would be interested in doing some work for the “Bad Dad show: a tribute to Wes Anderson.”  I was like “HELL-YEA!“  With him not knowing that I was truly the biggest “Life of Aquatic” movie fan and pretty much one of my favorite move of all time.  It’s Crazy how things work out.

I know that Spoke Art recently created some custom Steve Zissou Adidas.  Were you able to get your hands on a pair?

Oh-yeah! I forgot that.  They did say i could get my hands on a pair.  Thanks for reminding me.

Can you describe your working relationship with Matt Stawski?

Matt is one of my best friends.  We are just friends being creative doing what we love.  We enjoy each others company, have this strong satisfaction with each others creative minds, the process, and we understand each other on a level that makes it truly worth it all.  We know when to have fun and when it’s just business.  Matt’s one of the very few people that truly knows me as an artist and as a person.  Maybe because we are both so passionate about what we do… therefore we have a fun working relationship that always comes first.

How much collaboration is typically involved with the actual musicians on a video project?

It all depends on the artist or label.  Most artists have seen our work in the past and know what they’re getting themselves into and trust us, some like to get involved and have input after they read Matt’s treatment.  But when it comes to the post-production, we do what the hell we want.  I kid; most time it is easier to show an artist or label, after posts than the written treatment.  They end up loving it anyway.  But Matt is a brilliant director who writes his own treatments, who’s a very hands on director on set, and edits his own videos.  And I come alone on post work and we kill it in the end.  Musicians happen to put all their trust in us for their videos, so we must be doing something right.

I’ve noticed that you added an image of yourself into the Cee-Lo Green “Fuck You” video (3:09 mark).  Do you often incorporate “hidden” images into your work?

Ha!  Yeah, I put Matt and myself in the video.  We try to put hidden images in all of the videos when we have the time.  We would put hidden messages for us and for the artist.  It makes the process and video very fun for us.  Just like all of my paintings, they are full of hidden messages.  Why not do it with the videos?

Click here to view the embedded video.

What was your most memorable experience from the Grammy’s?

Sometimes I forgot to stop and witness what was going on in the moment, because of all the distractions and so much was going on at the same time that night.  But when I did, I was like “Holy-Crap I’m sitting in the pit among all these music legends”  But what was a mind-blowing experience to me was when our video for (F-U) would play on the big screen at the Grammy’s, and at that moment I knew all those big music legends were watching our video clip.  Best feeling as an artist.

Was it different than you expected?

It was very different than I expected.  I thought we were going to come home with that golden Grammy award scramming “HA-HA! Lady Gaga we won! sucka!“  That didn’t happen.

How do you feel about the situations in Haiti?  What do you think the role of the artist is in times of tragedy?

That quake is still the biggest tragedies of my life.  I’m still always trying to find ways to help, constantly since day one.  I Have been trying to find ways to help rebuild my country and the need of my people.  From donating art for shows to raise money, trying to make t-shirts and shows to raise money.  Anything.  I may not have much but there are people in Haiti and everywhere else that have less than me.  I know just with my small help I am feeding at lease one family for a day, rebuilding a home, or giving Medical care.

You were born in Haiti, grew up in Miami, studied in Detroit, and now live in San Francisco.  How have these places influenced your work?

These Places are all the biggest influences for my work.  It helps me to understand the differences in people and their way of life and it takes me into a journey all in itself.

There are a ton of artists in San-Francisco, what is the art scene like in comparison to other cities?

I really don’t know anymore, every city is so different.  But I would always say SF and LA have this Juxtapoz magazine feel compare to New York, Miami, or Detroit.  Where I feel like Here, everyone is trying to find ways to “Fit in” with their work compared to the East Coast, where everyone’s trying to “Stand out”.  So when I came here, I felt out of place and stood out.  And I was fine with that.

Do you think that San-Francisco is a good place for young African American artists to build their career? Does living and working in SF come with any unique challenges?

Oh-yeah I love a challenge.  Most people would never think my work fit with this black guy before they would ever meet me.  Good thing my work talks for itself.  Because looks alone… I don’t think I would have gone far at all even being in a place like San Fran.  I’ve learned, I always have to prove myself all the time that I’m capable.  Something I’ve learn to deal with and have already prepared myself for in the long run of my career.

I did a little snooping and saw photos of you doing some traveling.   Has your work been affected by some of the places you have visited?

Traveling?  I never Travel. :-)

Do you have a favorite art movement or artist?   If so, who and why?

Favorite movement… is this present time because I’m living it and a part of it.  hahahah!  I don’t know.

What motivates you to keep creating work?

Lets just say, if someone cuts off my art hands, you might as well finish cutting me up into pieces cause there’s nothing else I know how to do or want to do.  Creating art runs thought my blood and is my first language.  All the things I could never say or wanted to say, painting helps me communicate that message.  That’s the motivation I need.  Plus, I can’t picture myself painting with my mouth or with my toes.

How much importance do you place on being aware of the art world around you, versus keeping your own unique viewpoint and style unaffected by trends?

Most of the time I’m in my own bubble.  But I really try to be up-to-date with the art world and I for sure think the scene needs my viewpoint.

If you met a younger version of yourself, what career advice would you give?

“Did I Travel back to the past?  Because this is very F***ing trippy“  But I would tell young future Serge, to explore all mediums and tools as a visual artist because its just gonna make you grow and make you become that powerful artist that you want to be.  Don’t just focus on one medium.  Be a painter, sculptor, photographer, designer, filmmaker, etc.  It helps and the knowledge is always helpful.  With that…let the force be with you.

What are you working on right now?  What can we expect to see from Serge Gay Jr. in the year ahead?

I’m working on paintings for this New York group show right now that’s going to be in April. (Lets say it’s about the movie “Pulp Fiction”)  And a SF Group show at Space Gallery, also in April.  What you will expect from Mr. Gay this year…. more shows, a Great solo show, painting toys, hopefully more music videos, …movies…?  And much more sweet projects. So exciting!

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Leilani Lewis lives in Seattle where she is a regular fixture in the local art community, curating shows for a number of venues, handling duties at the NW African American Art Museum, and serving as a member of various art committees. Read more of her work on her own site, ProPepper.blogspot.com.

and

Don’t forgot to visit Serge Gay Jr.’s official site @ SergeGayJr.com

When we mention “two-time award nominated producer, Ian Brennan,” a good percentage of mainstream America would likely assume that we were referring to the creator of the FOX network’s musical sitcom, GLEE.  We aren’t.  Although his work may be less recognizable among the soccer mom and mall-frequenting tween sets,  the Bay Area producer/musician/writer/indie-promoter is, arguably, much more prolific than his prime-time Hollywood namesake.  [Please note that this is not a claim that Brennan is likely to make himself or one that he is even likely to concern himself with.]

Through various successful ventures, Ian has consistently proven himself a modern day Renaissance man, drawn to any project or cause that he finds substance in and feels that he has the ability to be beneficial towards.  Besides working on his own music, Brennan produced the debut release from Rain Machine (aka: Kyp Malone from TV on the Radio) in 2009, and has received Grammy nominations for his work on albums for both Rambling Jack Elliot [I Stand Alone -2006] and Peter Case [Let Us Now Praise Sleepy John - 2007].  He’s been a highly successful concert promoter- raising over $100,000 in charity funding from benefit shows- and booked the music for the free “Food Not Bombs” 20th anniversary show (feat. Fugazi and Sleater Kinney).  Over the last 17 plus years, he has worked as an expert on the subjects of violence prevention, anger management, and conflict resolution (both as a published author and lecturer) and, in 2008, created San Francisco‘s Sidewalk Homeless Memorial, raising awareness for the numerous casualties that annually befall individuals who are living on the streets.  Brennan has worked in public radio, written a music column, directed a weekly public-access TV show, and even created the original “Boxing Bush” online video game, after unsuccessfully extending a challenge to the former U.S. President to compete against him in an 8-round charity boxing match.  For his latest project/labor of love, the Bay Area-native has focused his sights overseas and unearthed the soulful music of a relatively unknown Rwandan trio known as The Good Ones.  At a time when bad musical theater renditions of 80s covers by Twenty-something actors posing as precocious teens are being credited with breaking Billboard Top 100 records held by the likes of The Beatles (who they cover!), James Brown, and Elvis, music this unpretentious, pure, and untainted by over the top marketing gimmicks is more essential than ever.

Brennan‘s journey in Rwanda began when he accompanied his wife (filmmaker, Marilena Delli) and the film crew for “Rwanda’ Mama” in documenting his mother-in-law’s first return to her birth country in 30 years.  After witnessing her family’s rape/murder during the first Rwandan genocide back in 1959, Marilena‘s mother was orphaned at the young impressionable age of only 7 years old.  In 1978 she married an Italian ex-priest and relocated to Italy, only to endure additional issues of poverty and racism in a completely new environment, with the added setback of an unfamiliar language.  The subject matter of the film is intense and, throughout the course of her return visit, she is even reunited with her best friend, whom she had previously believed was slaughtered in the 1994 massacres.  In addition to the focus placed on her mother’s return home, the film also addresses feelings of displacement for Marilena and her sister, who were persecuted as “blacks” in Northern Italy, and the disillusionment felt as they realized that they would find no more of a home in Rwanda, where they were viewed as “white” outsiders.

Ian spent his time in Rwanda on his own personal mission to discover hidden musical talent in a nation overshadowed by the trademark sounds of such neighboring countries as Burundi and The Democratic Republic of Congo.  This quest was further fueled by a need to disprove so called World Music “experts” and their close-minded claims that Rwanda had absolutely nothing of value to offer the music world.  The producer held a firm belief in his vision but, after two-weeks of intense searching, he was still coming up flat.  It was at this point, in July of 2009, that he was introduced to the inspiring musical harmonies of The Good Ones:

“They were standing in the dark, their eyes downcast and restless, and holding only one guitar between them. From 100-feet away, I knew instantly that there was something special about them, a feeling one is lucky to experience even once in a lifetime. By that point, I’d already visited literally every recording-studio in the capital (Kigali) and surrounding areas over two weeks and listened to hundreds of artists, but to no avail. This meeting had been set up through a mutual friend and the instant the band opened their mouths to sing, it was as if the universe reached down to tap me on the shoulder and say, ‘What these guys do is precious and rare. Don’t fuck it up.‘”

That first night’s meeting was with Adrien Kazigira (47 yrs old) and Stany Hitiman (also 47), only two-thirds of the group, and the one guitar that they wielded between them contained only two-thirds of it’s strings.  Even with this lesser format, Brennan knew that he had finally found the artists that he’d been searching for.  With the aid of a translator, he urged the duo to allow him to document their sound.  They agreed, but assured him that they were only a shell of themselves without their final member, Jeanvier Havugimana (38).  The following night they returned as a trio and an additional, although battered, acoustic guitar was located for Kazigira, while Stany played the 4-string.  Brennan constructed a makeshift recording set-up by utilizing a couple of condenser mic’s and elements from the documentary crews video cameras.  What resulted was the beautiful and intimate 11-track release, Kigali Y’ Izahabu, released by Dead Oceans last November.

Recorded outside on the porch of the very same property that they had met at the prior evening, Kigali Y’ Izahabu is as raw as it is moving (on the song, “Umahanano” wild dogs can actually be heard barking in the background).  The vocal harmonies are misleadingly complex, as they commingle and whirl like dervishes; filling the gaps in the guitar lines like breezes effortlessly swirling through forest canopies.  Over time, World Music has often become as diluted as any other genre of music, and The Good Ones remind us of the value that can be found within other cultures, no matter how foreign they may seem to our own.  Not even recorded in straight-forward Kinyarwandan (the official Rwandan language), but rather in a street dialect that not everyone in their home country even understands, Kigali Y’ Izahabu communicates through it’s emotions, deliver, and tone as much as through the words themselves.  I haven’t been as instantly affected and struck by the sounds of a “world music” album in this way, since I was introduced to the kora through Toumani Diabate‘s 1988 solo debut, Kaira.  More than just a testament to what outside cultures have to offer, The Goods Ones are a reminder of both the purpose and possibilities of music, itself.  With a group comprised of 3 middle-aged war veterans/genocide survivors who subsist on next to nothing in one of the poorest countries in the world, these men do not play music for any other reason than because their souls have instructed them too.  Considering their circumstances, the idea of getting a record deal wasn’t even on their radar, let alone a priority.  With all of the press releases we receive from groups with slick marketing campaigns, high-budget videos, and appropriated imagery, the honesty behind these 3 Rwandan men is both welcomed and refreshing.  And, with all of the newfangled titles being invented to fabricate the illusion that some entirely unique new genre like “Post-Wave-Core” has been invented, I don’t know how else to refer to what The Good Ones present than to simply call it “MUSIC”.

We have been fortunate enough to communicate with Ian Brennan, himself, and have the producer discuss with us a bit more about his  process, perceptions, and over all experiences in working on this amazing project.  That dialogue of that conversation is posted below.  We hope you enjoy it.

MONSTER FRESH: I know that when you headed to Rwanda it was partly for the filming of Rwanda Mama, documenting you mother-in-law’s return to her birth country.  How long had you been intending to search out Rwandan music prior to that?  Was it something that you had been hoping to do for a long time or more of an idea that you began fostering once you knew that you would already be heading to the country with your wife?

IAN BRENNAN: The music search was an idea that formulated once the trip was scheduled and developed further while we were there and became more acquainted with the country.

From what I’ve read about the documentary, it seems to address strong elements of racism and prejudice, but I was surprised to hear that there is so much prejudice against the MUSIC of Rwanda, as well.  Did you find your own quest of redemption aligning with the progression of the documentary at all?

The documentary and the record are definitely related.  The record would not have happened without the documentary.

I’ve noticed that a film still from the Rwanda Mama site is also being used as the cover art for The Good Ones’ album and am wondering if that is the extent of the integration between the two finished projects.

They are separate entities.  Hopefully, they both help bring positive attention to Rwanda, a diverse country of almost 10 million people.  Rwanda’ Mama, ironically, features much great Rwandan music (a lot of it rarities from the 1970′s), but not The Good Ones.

The photos were done by Marilena and her sister and the video footage by Marilena, so thanks to them we have strong visual components for the project.

You’ve stated that there are political issues discouraging street musicianship in Rwanda and that it was something which made seeking out the local music more difficult for you.  You’ve also referred to The Good Ones music as part of a tradition known as “Street Songs”.  Was there once a strong street music element to the culture and, if so, approximately when did that end?

In our experience there were no street musicians and we were told by more than one person that it is discouraged there, but i do not know officially what the status of that is.  The “worker song” tradition is a folk tradition and when they speak of the streets it seems that reference is more regarding the “tougher” neighborhoods than actually performing publicly.

Stylistically, is the tradition that The Good Ones music stems from something that is still vibrant in the country or is it a sound that is near extinction due to abandonment by younger generations?

Rwanda is musically diverse and vibrant, but in our experience most of the music currently being made there was akin to American hip-hop and R & B, but with Kinyrwandan lyrics.

It seems like you had a goal to prove that Rwanda had something important and valid to offer the world musically, but when you went there, you had such difficulty locating anything of substance.  Do you feel that The Good Ones are ultimately a representation of Rwanda, simply a singular musical anomaly of a few individuals creating magic, or, at this point, does that even matter?

They are individuals.  Rwanda is a complex and rich culture of almost 10 million people.  There is definitely something magical and unique about the music these three men make, though.

This is basically just an extension of the last question but, coming from a country with such a loaded history, how important do you think it is to focus on the musicians as individuals vs where they are from?  How much importance do you place on the arts to create understanding and compassion between cultures?

Art is a great commonality and can transcend race, nationality, class, with amazing ease.  It can be one of the most powerful gateways for creating understanding and compassion.  Certainly, Dr. J or Jackie Robinson or James Joyce or Bruce Lee, did more for lastingly breaking down stereotypes and barriers between human beings than any politician could ever hope to.

The arts both reflect and for better or worse lead a culture. Rwanda deserves much recognition beyond the tragedies of the genocides.

When you met them that first night and they explained that they needed their third member to record, did you feel an urgency where you felt like you might lose the opportunity if you didn’t record immediately?

It was definitely a bit scary to wait, particularly since Stany and Adrien also harmonize quite well together.  But they were definitely right that it was even better with Jeanvier.

Click here to view the embedded video.

In the song “Gahinda Umpora Iki We” (“Sadness why do you persecute me?”) there is mention of the song Bertilde being stolen in the lines, “I wrote the song about Bertilde.  The morning after they stole it from me.  They put it on CDs and on DVDs.”  Did they explain that scenario in any more detail and how trusting and open were they to allowing you to record them, overall?

They definitely were wary.  The tradition of bootlegging is so predominant in Africa and most regions outside of North America, Japan, and Europe, that there basically is no official or legal record industry in much of the world.

There is such a variety to the subject matter from song to song, but much of the lyrics deal with concepts of universal wisdom.  I like that “Gahinda Umpora Iki We” lends a balance to that subject matter, demonstrating that even these men, who seem to have such a firm centered grip and uplifting view on everything, still have their own moments of fear and doubt.  “Umuntu Ni Nkundi” (“One person is like another”), however, seems to encompass more of the general tone of the album, because they don’t seem to be complaining about their circumstances, but rather, just understanding and seeing beyond them.  Based on the time that you spent with them, do you find that to be an accurate interpretation of their characters?

It seems that very few people in Rwanda have not directly been touched by unthinkable tragedy, so there is a palpable depth and sadness melancholy that underscores most interactions, but also a mature joy.

It’s my understanding that for the translations, you’re mother-in-law first had to translate the songs from an informal slang to Kinyarwandan, then to Italian and, after that, your wife translated them from Italian to English.  Did you have any idea what they were singing about when you were recording?  Was there any pause for explanation or did you just go straight through the recordings with little interaction?

Certainly there was an element of wanting to be sure that we knew what was being sung about and the quality of the lyric writing was another great revelation.  We did know that the vast majority of the songs were love songs as evidenced by 4 of the 12 titles being names of women.

Much of the content is universally relatable, like how “Ibyʼisi ni Ubusa” (The things of this earth one day or another will end) is about the impermanence of materialistic goods or how “Bakame nʼ Ingwe” (The fox and the leopard) addresses the pain of deceit and infidelity.  For me, “Egidia” is a bit more difficult to discern the meaning behind and I was hoping that you may be able to enlighten me about it.  I wasn’t sure if it’s just a simple story about a girl moving away without a trace or if there was anything more to it culturally that I would be missing.

My understanding is that often in Rwanda communication channels are difficult, so the poignancy of losing contact with someone can be quite deep.  For instance, my mother-in-law lost contact with her best friend for decades and had believed her dead, before discovering in 2008 that she was still alive.

As a successful public speaker on the subject of Anger Management, I am curious about your interpretation of the song, “Amagorwa yʼ Abagabo” (The desperation of men).

It is certainly one of the more controversial lyrics, but i think its largely redeemed by the final stanza.

“Usually some men have a difficult life
Usually some men have a difficult life
But there are some women who have a difficult life too
Try to speak…what do you say? If you speak, I come and beat you
Try to speak…what do you say? If you speak I come and beat you…
But not everyone is like that…”

Since there are limited forums for them to perform in publicly or as a “band”, I was surprised by how structured and well formed their songs were.  Do they consider themselves to be a formal group or just some friends playing music together?

They do consider themselves a formal group, but there are few venues for public performance in Rwanda.

Did you expect them to have so much material available from the beginning or were you surprised to find that they had such a large catalog to draw from?  Also, had you even intended to find that one group or did you expect to piece together more of a selection from different artists initially

It was a journey and quest with no real end-goal in sight, just the hope and faith that there would be much great music out there.  The depth of The Good Ones’ writing, particularly Adrien’s, is rare anywhere.  It has been gratifying to defy the “wisdom” of more than one of the European colonialist music-industry figures who act as the gatekeepers for bringing international music to the world and had the audacity to tell me, “Rwandan music is not good.“

I know that they cut the recording session shorter than you had hoped, because of a “meeting” the next day.  Are there hopes to record more of their work at some point?

It would be nice to record more.  And they certainly have much more material, some of which I heard (and was as strong as most songs on the record) and most of which i didn’t.

One of the first questions that I had regarding the unique nature of an album like Kigali Y Izahabu, relates to the concept of “production” versus “documentation”.  Then I found a comment from you stating that you view every album that you work on as a “field recording” on one level or another.  Producers are typically acknowledged for the signature touches that they put on an artist’s sound but, with something like The Good Ones in particular, the approach seems to be to avoid and/or remove as many fingerprints as possible.  How much does the approach to recording differ on an album like this and what, if anything, did you take away from it that might lend itself to your overall approach to recording in the future?

Hopefully, every experience is a learning process.  I view my job as trying to be as objective, invisible, and and ego-less as possible, and hopefully to help artists get out of their own way and not be tripped up by their own subjectivity.  For example, almost every artist I’ve ever known hates the song that is most beloved by neutral listeners.

In the interview with SFist.com you talk about your approach to working with an artist by stating that it is “More than getting them to do something, it’s getting them to not do something.”  Were The Good Ones extremely organic with the process, seeing as they don’t generally encounter a situation such as this, or was there any hesitation or issues of them trying to deliver something to you that they thought you may have wanted?

They were very professional and focused. they played Sara three times– once the first time and twice the night of the recording– and all three times it was uniformly stellar.  In my experience, in the absence of TV, video-games, etc. many African communities have deep practice of self-entertainment where expression musically is a normal part of daily life.

In the promotional images Jeanvier is holding a book labeled “Chitarra”, is that where they learned to play?

Stany is holding the book.  Its an Italian song book and he said he used it to learn many songs and was quite smitten with Italian culture from what he said.

You’ve been associated with Anti- records in the past; what brought you to Dead Oceans for this release?

Bob van Heur, a great independent promoter in the Netherlands, suggested that i contact Phil at Dead Oceans.  I was immediately impressed with how instantly Phil had an understanding of what made the band special– the deceptively complex vocal interplay, etc.

What’s the next step?  How much post-nurturing takes place with a project like this?

The next step is hopefully that they can tour Europe and/or the USA, but there are many bureaucratic elements that impede that.  Also, hopefully the record will find a place in the canon of “world music” and enjoy the longevity it deserves (and hopefully also provide greater financial rewards for the band).

It’s been an ongoing labor of love, but a pleasurable one.  The more people that hear the record, the greater  the benefit, i think for both the band and the listeners.

Before ending this, I wanted to give you an opportunity to tell us more about your new book “Anger Antidotes: How Not to Lose Your S#&!” which is coming out this year.

It’s been over 17 years in the making.  There are many books on the subject, but hopefully there are a few insights in this one that will help a few folks to find constructive alternatives to the negative behaviors we see around us so often.

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BUY Kigali Y’ Izahabu HERE

PLEASE CHECK OUT THE FOLLOWING LINKS:

IAN’s Official Website
The Good Ones (on Facebook)
The Good Ones (official Dead Oceans Artist Page)